The Golden Age is Over! (1 Viewer)

[Paul Miller]

How about insurance fees Rhino would have to pay if they worked directly with the originals? It all adds up and I doubt there is really enough margin for error between this being proftiable and this being a dud for them to go fiddling around with the originals just because a handful of fans who were going to by Too Close For Comfort are going to pass on it all together because it is the syndicated cuts.

If you really want all of these smaller titles released in the past like you have said repeatedly, starting these death threads whenever a smaller company takes a chance on a show like Make Room For Daddy or Too Close For Comfort and does a less than satifactory job, you are only shooting yourself in the foot because there are only so many studios which will take the risk.

I am glad you have your tapes, but some of us don't and would like to get some of these titles on DVD even if some of these are cut.

Paul

 

[Mark To]

Would you be happy with a book with 15% of the pages missing? Hey, it's better than not having the book at all, right? Or how about a CD with songs missing from the LP? Or songs cut? Why buy something that you can record off the air yourself? Is that what DVD is for, to give you what you can get elsewhere? Maybe for people who got into the hobby five minutes ago it might be fine but for those of us who didn't start collecting yesterday our standards might be a little higher. So you take whatever you're given and be happy about it while many of the rest of us will aim higher. And I've never heard of such a thing as "insurance fees" on videotapes.

 

[MatthewA]

First of all, most shows are deposited for copyright at the Library of Congress long before syndication cuts enter the picture, thus if all else fails you can see if the tapes there can be used.

 

[MatthewA]

Also, it seems to me (in my experience) that syndication cuts are exclusive to the United States and, to a lesser extent, Canada.

 

[Paul Miller]

Fine, but you will never be happy because the companies aren't going to aim higher on shows that the masses don't know about because their companies couldn't keep them in syndication to please a handful of fans.

Paul

 

[MatthewA]

"Ravages of time"? The complete versions most likely exist, they're just too lazy to use them.

As I have tried to tell you, the principle of removing 15% of a book and removing 15% of a TV episode are the same. And something being gone forever is a good excuse, but "we didn't feel like tracking down an uncut copy even though it exists" is not. Do principles or standards matter anymore?

Having the most complete version available should be a prerequisite of any DVD release.

And have you seen what the syndication edits do to some of these shows? I have some tapes I can show you.

 

[MatthewA]

You cannot. But in the last few years one could record cut versions off of cable or broadcast TV,

 

[Paul Miller]

Matthew, do you remember offhand what stations what Make Room For Daddy & Too Close For Comfort were on when they were on last?


Paul

 

[Mark To]

Make Room for Daddy ran on Channel 5 in NY in the mid-80s which I where I got many of them from. It also ran on Nick at Nite in the late 80's, TV Land in the mid-90s and GoodLife in the late 90s. Anyone of those runs would have provided you the same or more complete versions of the show than what was released on DVD.



I don't know what tapes people you know have used but the Fuji AV-Pro and TDK EHG tapes I have that are 20 years old play perfectly and I will take a slight loss in quality for completeness over a slightly better quality copy that's cut any day of the week. You keep your 22 minute Alfs and I'll keep my NBC VHS complete Alf masters. Likewise shows like the Wonder Years and WKRP in Cincinnati which if either ever does come out will have all of the music changed. I'll sacrifice the slight quality loss for having the show as it was made. Not to mention the hundreds of shows that will NEVER see the light of day on DVD in any form. Unfortunately when it comes to pre-VHS shows (like MRFD) I'm stuck like everyone else.

 

[Dave Farley]

I won't buy any TV show on DVD that uses syndication versions. I always check various sites to find out before making a purchase. It probably doesn't do any good, but I make it a point to write a polite letter and make a phone call when I find out something has been cut. Personally, I do think they should be required to have a label on the back stating whether they are uncut or edited for syndication.

Mark To,

I agree with you on the complete VHS versus syndicated DVD argument. I'll take the complete version over a better-looking incomplete version any day.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

I believe that shows that are edited should have a label similar to when films are edited for pan and scan, ie. "This film has been modified from it's original version to fit your screen," but obviously suited for a TV DVD release, not a pan and scan film.

Andy

 

[Ravi K]

I'm going to be a lot more careful about buying old shows on DVD from now on. With newer shows I don't believe we have much to worry about, but I recently bought 21 Jump Street for someone and I am disappointed to hear that it does not have the original music. Even with Fox, who generally does a good job, I will be careful. I don't know how much a studio can clean up video-sourced shows like Too Close for Comfort, but at least find the uncut episodes! That was one show I would have bought if not for HTF.

 

[Rob Pritchard]

I have to agree with the original poster. It is dismaying to see US TV series (some of them childhood favourites of mine) slung out without any attempt at restoration. In the UK we are very lucky to have been considerably better served in this regard. For starters there's BBC Worldwide's own Doctor Who titles - everyone of which has undergone a painstaking remastering/restoration. Check out the DVD section at The Doctor Who Restoration Team website for the details. In 2001 Carlton (now Granada Ventures) funded a quite astonishing restoration of Gerry/Sylvia Anderson's SF series 'UFO' (1969/70). Not only were new elements created from the original 35mm negs, but each of the 26 episodes underwent a comprehensive digital restoration in which neg dirt and scatches were painstakingly painted out. The end result is a benchmark for how good a television film series can look. You try comparing 'UFO' to Paramount's crummy Star Trek TOS releases and the difference in image quality is night and day. Carlton also did the same for some of Anderson's earlier 35mm puppet shows such as Captain Scarlet and Joe 90 with equally impressive results.

For what it's worth, other UK TV series include the tough John Thaw cop show 'The Sweeney' (1975-8), in which all 53 episodes were remastered via a combination of new CRI's and IP's struck from the original 16mm negs, followed by an exhaustive digital restoration. 'Sykes: The Complete 1972 Series' and 'The Goodies', two comedy shows shot on video with 16mm film inserts in which the film sequences were retransferred/graded/restored and the video footage cleaned up/noise reduced. In both cases the finished results are simply stunning.

Other UK series which have had the same treatment (mainly from Network Video) include 'Public Eye: The Complete 1969 Series', 'Thriller: Series One', 'Star Cops', the Michael Palin/Terry Jones comedy series 'The Complete Ripping Yarns', next years R2 release of the BBC's '1984' (starring Peter Cushing as Winston Smith), 'Edward VII', 'Robin of Sherwood', 'Brand', 'Strange Report' and the BBC's 'I, Claudius'.

Oh, and there is this recent announcement from Fanderson (and btw the mentioned re-release of 'Space:1999' looks set to be an HD restoration from the original 35mm elements):

'Network Video has finalised negotiations with Granada Ventures for the UK DVD release rights to more than 250 television series from the ITV catalogue - including Supercar, The Secret Service, Space:1999 and Gerry Anderson's first independent television production Four Feather Falls, unseen for nearly 40 years.

Although Supercar and The Secret Service are already available on Region 1 DVD in North America, the Network releases will present the series on PAL-formatted Region 2 DVD for the first time. A new edition of Space:1999 is also on the cards, with all 48 episodes set to be digitally remastered to the standard seen on recent DVD releases of UFO, Joe 90 and Captain Scarlet And The Mysterons. In addition, Network has made separate arrangements with Canal Plus to license DVD releases of an earlier Anderson puppet series, Torchy The Battery Boy.

A light-hearted Western series with musical interludes, Four Feather Falls follows the adventures of wandering cowboy Tex Tucker who becomes the sheriff of the happy frontier town of Four Feather Falls near Silver City. After he saves the life of an Indian Chief's son, Tex is rewarded with four magic feathers which endow his horse and dog with the power of speech and give life to his guns, enabling them to swivel and fire automatically whenever danger presents itself.

Gerry Anderson produced 39 13-minute episodes of Four Feather Falls between April 1959 and April 1960, pioneering a sophisticated puppetry technique which later came to be known as Supermarionation. As a complete set of prints does not exist, the programme is expected to be digitally remastered from the original negatives for the DVD release.

Torchy The Battery Boy was the creation of romantic novelist Roberta Leigh and tells of a boy doll who comes to life and travels by rocket to Topsy Turvy Land, a magical world where toys can walk, animals can talk and cream buns grow on trees. Anderson produced the first 26 episodes of the series between October 1958 and April 1959, but he rejected a commission from Leigh for further episodes - a second season of 26 episodes was produced by Associated British-Pathe instead.

Over the last few years, Network Video have acquired a reputation amongst fans of cult television for their sterling work on remastering programmes for DVD and producing a wide range of innovative special features to complement the episodes in their DVD packages. The company has recently received acclaim for their complete season releases of The Sweeney and an extras-packed box set of the ITC series Strange Report. Network managing director Tim Beddows told FABNews, "We're all obviously delighted with the Granada deal and we're looking forward to working on such a wide variety of shows from ITV's first 50 years."

Through a prior arrangement with Granada, Network are already preparing Region 2 DVD releases of the ITC series Man In A Suitcase, Department S, Jason King, Return Of The Saint and Shillingbury Tales for 2005. Now these shows will be supplemented in Network's schedules by releases for The Saint, Danger Man, The Baron, The Adventurer and The Zoo Gang as well as new editions of The Persuaders!, The Champions, Randall And Hopkirk Deceased and The Prisoner. Lesser-known programmes such as Gideon's Way, Interpol Calling, Man Of The World, The Four Just Men, Ghost Squad, Court Martial and Shirley's World are among the 25 other ITC series licensed by Network.

Outside the ITC catalogue, the hundreds of ITV programmes now on course for DVD release from Network include television classics such as Budgie, Arthur Of The Britons, Catweazle, Follyfoot, The Sandbaggers, Two's Company, Roald Dahl's Tales Of The Unexpected, Whoops Apocalypse, The XYY Man, Orson Welles' Great Mysteries and New Scotland Yard. Network will also be releasing Here Comes Mumfie, a 1975 puppet series created and produced by former AP Films/Century 21 cinematographer John Read and puppeteer Mary Turner.

Many of these programmes may not feature on Network's release schedule for several years, but the company already has tentative plans for each of the Gerry Anderson series to appear on DVD during 2005: the Anderson episodes of Torchy The Battery Boy are set to be released in February with Supercar likely to follow in late February or early March, The Secret Service in May and Four Feather Falls in June. The first season of remastered Space:1999 episodes will possibly be released to tie-in with the series' 30th anniversary next September.'

Obviously many of these shows won't mean anything to an American audience but it's puzzling that companies like Network and Granada feel able to justify the expense of restoration on R2/UK only releases, yet US studios - with a vastly larger market - don't appear willing to do the same for their television product.

 

[Mark To]

Wow, that's some list of shows! I'm really excited to hear about them doing some of those obscure shows like Four Just Men, Man of the World, Gideon's Way, The Baron, Court Martial and Man in a Suitcase. What about some of the shows that ITC produced mainly for the American market in the 50s? Halls of Ivy, The Gale Storm Show, New York Confidential, Hawkeye, etc. Is there a full list of the older shows they plan on releasing?

 

[BernieV]

Here's my take on what's happening with TV on DVD releases -

Studios are almost always out to make the quick buck. They know their archives are potential gold mines and the quickest way to realize a profit is to churn them out on DVD as fast as possible. The majority of the buying public don't know or don't care about syndicated versions, restoration, supplemental materials, etc. They see a title they like, look at the price and make an impulse purchase. So the studios concentrate on quantity of releases and discount pricing. That results in lower quality and incomplete sets.

The situation isn't likely to improve until studios reach the bottom of their catalogs. Then they'll start looking for ways to "remine" the archives. We'll start seeing things like Collector's Editions pop up with the restoration and missing material we want. Prices will make a quantum jump. Sets that are selling for $30 now will be rereleased in $100 editions. Then it will truly become a collectors market.

The same thing happens with movies on DVD. Early releases are pushed out quickly with a second-rate transfer, but any film with a large fan following eventually gets a Director's Cut, and many early buyers are persuaded to double-dip. The same thing will happen with TV series. Right now we're just experiencing phase 1 of the product cycle.