The Final Season of Buffy Announced (1 Viewer)

[Matt Stone]

As much as a dislike Marti Noxon, I do like Riley. I think he was a good companion for Buffy without worrying about treading on the Buffy/Angel relationship. Certainly, he was much more plain than Angel...but between Riley and Spike, I'd take Riley every time.

I like Doug Petrie as a writer, but after watching Buffy Season 7 and Angel Season 5, it's a shame that Drew Goddard didn't get a chance to write more often. I think he did a hell of a job with the episodes he did between the two shows:
Buffy-
episode 7.05 "Selfless"
episode 7.07 "Conversations with Dead People"
episode 7.09 "Never Leave Me"
episode 7.17 "Lies My Parents Told Me"
episode 7.18 "Dirty Girls"
Angel-
episode 5.07 "Lineage"
episode 5.11 "Damage"
episode 5.13 "1943"
episode 5.18 "Origin"
episode 5.20 "Girl in Question, The"

 

[Michael Reuben]

IMO, Angel fell apart with the reappearance of the teenage Conner at the end of season 3 -- an annoying character played by an equally annoying actor. The arc that led to Jasmine rivaled the plotting of Alias for its lack of logic, and the various resolutions of the season were forced and mechanical. The only advantage of the season was that I started season 5 (which I'm now watching) with zero expectations and have been pleasantly surprised.

I'd take season 6 or 7 of Buffy over season 4 of Angel any day.

M.

 

[TedT]

Can't be worse than season 5. I'll be buying.

 

[Matt Stone]

As you said, you're only up through season 4, but Vincent Kartheiser is much better in his two season 5 episodes. He's not a bad actor, he just had horrible writing. When he's not playing the whiny teenager role, he's pretty good. I've said it before in other threads, but I'll say it again here.

I'm not a fan of the Jasmine arc...it's a little too X-Files for Angel. That being said, I really appreciate the message conveyed by it. Even if Jasmine was here to do good, she was taking away our ability to choose how to live our lives. Much like Buffy S7 showing that the Watchers aren't necessarily good guys, Angle S4 showed that the powers have their own personal power struggles. They aren't necessarily in it for our well being.

 

[Joshua_W]

BTVS Season Six could've been absolutely brilliant if they would've done a few things differently:

1) They turned Willow into a "Charmed"-reject. Her magickal ability just got too silly early in the sixth season with stunts like decorating the house for Xanya's engagement party, changing clothes in "Tabula Rasa," and the Bronze stuff she did with Amy in "Smashed."

2) The drug metaphor was laid on laughably thick. "Wrecked" came off like an after school special: the (C)Rack dealer, Willow takes a shower because she feels dirty, the bad friend robs the house, the car accident that injures an innocent. Just painful to watch the characters we love reduced to this nonsense. I don't have a problem with Willow abusing magick (like castings spell to manipulate her loved ones) but so much of this stuff just came off silly.

3) "Doublemeat Palace" came off like a lame first season episode. Just imagine how much better the episode would've been with no monster, just Buffy trying to find monsters and cannibalism in mundane, everyday life.

4) Dark Willow's dialogue. Alyson is a good actress... they didn't need to fill her mouth with lame lines to make her sound menacing.

 

[Jaime_Weinman]

Riley wasn't inherently a bad character; they just never really figured out what to do with him. It's obvious, both from watching the show and from rumors, that Riley's season 4 story was supposed to be Xander's. (Xander had already been set up as the "military guy," and the idea, so it's said, was that he would be pulled into some quasi-military organization while the girls were in college.) Put Xander in that story instead of Riley, and suddenly season 4 would be much stronger overall, because Xander would have something to do, and the whole Initiative story would play out with an important character instead of a relatively bland newcomer.

Oh, and I thought "Doublemeat Palace" was one of the better episodes of season 6, as it was one of the few to convey the whole "life after school sucks" theme with the trademark Buffy combination of humor and horror. (But then I also like all the early monster-of-the-week episodes, like "I Robot, You Jane" and "Inca Mummy Girl," which may be cheesy but is truer to the spirit of the series than most of the season 7 stuff.)

 

[Robert Ringwald]

I thought the doublemeat palace episode had a nice twist. The old lady customer (anyone who's worked in fast food knows these types) ends up being the true threat... and the typical idea "they're using people as the food..." was completely wrong.

It was a fine episode for anyone who has ever worked in a fast food place, cause it was fun seeing all the similarities.

 

[Paul_Scott]

overall i thought it was brilliant.
i wasn't a big fan of the Doublemeat Palace ep either- for me that was the low point of the season (even moreso than the obvious drug/magic eps).
and yeah some of the early magic stuff (redecorating, etc) came across as too much, even given the fantasy setting of the series, but i could buy the magic power = mood altering, addictive drug so the way it was executed didn't chaffe me that much

 

[FrancisP]

I'm split on buying this. it was the best of times and the worst of times. The first 10 episodes were among the best the show has done. The producers made good use of the entire cast. You had Willow dealing with what she had done in S6. Anya and Zander dealing with their issues. Also Buffy was taking Dawn with her on patrol after she said Dawn was going to be so powerful in S6.

The last 12 episodes were the worst. The potentials were irritating. I was cheering for the First to get rid of them.
It became the Buffy/Spike/Potentials show with the rest of the cast shunted aside. Anya had a few scenes now and then.
Zander was filler. Dawn and Willow got an episode. Other
than that, they might as well have stayed home. The writing was really inane as well. For example, Buffy wants Zander to get Dawn out of town. Dawn gets away and heads back. What's the point? They spend the last episode standing in the school hallway. In Conversations, Buffy's mother says Buffy won't be there for you and will oppose you. That was never followed up and Joss Whedon's explanation is inane.
I think it sounded good so they threw it in there.

 

[Ryan_Guah]

Season 6 was one of the best seasons of TV, ever. The dark undertones were what made people think it was "so horrible".

I'd also take Season 6 and 7 of Buffy over Angel Season 4, anyday. I've also always had a strong dislike for Connor/Vincent. I can't stand his voice, and I really think he's a pretty horrible actor. I don't like Riley, but Marc Blucas can act, and very well.

 

[Jaime_Weinman]

No, it had nothing to do with the dark undertones. As I said before, almost everyone loved the musical episode, and that episode presented all the "dark" themes of the season: Buffy pulled out of heaven, Buffy's self-loathing relationship with Spike; Willow's abuse of power; etc. Yet nobody had a problem with the "dark" themes of this episode because it was so well-done and entertaining.

You're entitled to your opinion about season 6, but you have to understand that it wasn't the "darkness" that turned people off, it was what we perceived (and still perceive) as bad writing, bad production values, bad storytelling, and of course, the infinite suckitude of Spike.

 

[Britton]

I really got that "after school special" vibe from Willow's magic abuse early in the season. The tripping scenes were hokey and I expected her to tell Dawn "don't be such a square maaaaaan" when she was "high".

 

[Matt Thompson]

I prefer Buffy Season 7 to Season 6, namely because 6 was all over the place. You had your brilliant episodes, and then your downright terrible ones. As said before, the writing was definitely below-par compared to other seasons. That said, I feel Warren is one of the most inherently evil characters on the show -- he's pretty much Angelus, without the love for Buffy.

Season 7 played it safe, so it comes off as kind of "meh." Middle-of-the-road, certainly better than Seasons 1 and 4, and probably better than 6. It wrapped things up nicely, but never really took any chances, and that's what kept it from the greatness of Seasons 2, 3, and 5.

As for Angel, I've always preferred it to Buffy, so it'd be kind of... ah hell, I'll say it anyway. I'd take Angel: Season 4 over Buffy: Seasons 6 or 7 any day of the week

 

[Chris Roberts]

I've taken the whole Buffy series over Angel already as I don't intend to buy any Angel DVD's. I could write a long description of why I don't dig Angel, but this is a Buffy thread.

The main complaint for S6 seems to be the magic as drugs analogy. If you view it as them attempting to cleverly disguise an anti-drug message yeah its stupid and lame. But if you look at it as them purposely spoofing after-school-specials it seems to come off perfectly. Since almost everyone gets the after-school-special vibe when watching those scenes I think it was done on purpose.

S7 was on par with S4 I think. There are some really good episodes in both, but overall they weren't as good as other seasons. Spike was overused in S7, but he was also one of the more interesting characters on the show at that point imo. The real problem for me is they made Buffy (the star of the show) pretty much unlikable.
Yeah they went for the Captain Bligh thing where the crew mutiny's later, but the buildup to that took too long and when it happens (and gets resolved rather quickly) no redemption of the character happens to make her likable as a person again.

 

[Roger_R]

Heh, season 6's magic-is-bad arc was silly. They say that magic is addictive and BAAAD. But what exactly does it do to you that makes it so bad? They never really explained that. It felt like a "we've-run-out-of-ideas"-type of arc. The first person in the writer's room comes up with something silly and they go with it because no one else has a better idea. However, I liked the part where Buffy had to start making money, just made her character a bit more real I guess...

Season7... I got recordings of the UK TV broadcasts and watched the entire thing in a week. To me it felt like a looooong buildup with a really fast, unfullfilling ending.
Spike started to get weary. If he was any other vampire, Buffy would have killed him long ago. But noooo, Spike can be good....if he wants...and blablablablabla.
When they finally decided to go fighting, the medallion made a big boom then THE END. It was all over in 20 mins. I expected more.

 

[Ryan_Guah]

I was under the impression that what made the magic so bad is that Willow got too into it, became addicted, and when something that normal people would learn to deal with set her off (Tara) she tried to destroy the world. I thought it was a great analogy, and was right in the vein as the sex analogy of Season 2.

 

[Matt Stone]

Well, for one thing...they aren't exactly undertones since they are the complete focus of the show for the season, hehe

All kidding aside, I can respect the dark themes and as Jaime said, I loved OMWF...which was predominantly about the darkness. It's all about the presentation of those things, which is what I have a problem with. It felt like the b-team took over the show for most of the season.

 

[Mikel_Cooperman]

Me too. I really enjoyed Season 4 and I am one who liked Riley too (named my Dog after him.)

 

[Brian Lawrence]

Well on the topic of the Season 7 dvd release I have to say that I agree with those who think that cover-art looks like shit. Is that Sarah Michelle Gellar on the cover or is it Donna Mills? Unfortunately Buffy seems to be lacking in good alternate custom covers (I don't really care for the ones with the big letter B on them, but I can see where they would appeal to people who like a uniform look).

I appear to be in the minority here, but I actually thought Season 6 of Buffy was it's best season since 3. Call me a sucker for the obvious but I loved the whole Darth Willow angle, and I also loved the Double Meat Palace episode, as it kind of reminded me a little more of some of the goofier yet fun self-contained episodes from the 1st season.

Season 7 however seemed to be all over the map and lacking a sense of progression or direction. I felt that it was the one season of Buffy in which nobody developed any by the end. I also felt that it made way too many last minute changes to the long established rules in order wrap things up. I did not care at all for the final solution involving the potentials, as it seemed rather abrupt and a bit too easy to pull off. And as bad as the ala-Matrix finale of season 4 was, the ala-Lord of the Rings ending of season 7 was even worse. I wish they had gone a more personal and smaller scale route.

Regardless, It entertained me enough, where I will still be buying it

 

[Matt Stone]

I love Season 4 too. In fact, I keep it right up there with seasons 2 and 3 as my favorites. While the actual battle with Adam at the end was kind of stupid, I thought the message of Buffy, Willow, Xander and Giles needing to fuse together to defeat the enemy was a great one. The season had them all going off on their own directions (Buffy not really fitting in at school or the Initiative, Willow's sexuality with Tara, Xander's frustration + Anya entering the picture, Giles with no real job, etc) and in the end they found that they had to come back together.