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The Eternal Angelriffic Thread (Merged) (1 Viewer)

Paul P

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So let's go over the sanctuary spell evidence from this season(I don't remember the Keritas details)
Ok, what they have shown is that demons cannot committ violent acts in the hotel, specifically showing lorne trying to hit connor(two weeks ago). When Angel confronted Fred though, pretending he had a protective medallion, she figured out he was lying and was able to break a glass on his head, showing humans can committ violence. But in a seeming contradiction, connor was repelled when trying to hit Angelus, meaning either Connor isn't fully human, the spell doesn't apply to self defense such as with Fred, or the writers just suck. Cordy is just a complete toss-up because we don't really know what she is anymore.
 

PhilipG

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PhilipG, you're referring to Oedipus, the greek character from the sophocles trilogy who killed his father and married his mother. Orpheus(the actual title of the episode), however, was a greek musician whose wife Eurydice was killed.
:b I knew that. Really I did. I've even been to see Oedipus Rex performed on stage (and in Latin). But that was a long time ago, obviously... ;)

Anyway, if a numbskull like me can confuse two O...us names, maybe the Angel writers can too? I think the Oedipus allegory is stronger than the Orpheus (or even Morpheus) one.

BTW, forgot to say earlier: the "Meatloaf"-Angel was hilarious! :D
 

Ken_McAlinden

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...meaning either Connor isn't fully human, the spell doesn't apply to self defense such as with Fred, or the writers just suck
Or maybe that Evil Cordy (EC)can manipulate the spell inclusive of making it apply to Connor when it should not and/or lifting it as required. Lorne's ability to read Angelus was futzed with. We speculated that EC's spell was what blocked Lorne but we won't know until an explanation is offered. As long as it's forthcoming, I'm willing to wait and see how it turns out.

Regards,
 

RobertW

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another inconsistency: angelus was chained to the floor when connor came to stake him, but was prevented from doing so by faith. they fight, she throws him against the bars, and all of a sudden, angel is there to grab and hold him. how'd he get loose?
 

Ken_McAlinden

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another inconsistency: angelus was chained to the floor when connor came to stake him, but was prevented from doing so by faith. they fight, she throws him against the bars, and all of a sudden, angel is there to grab and hold him. how'd he get loose?
I thought he was chained, but not to the floor. I assume he was still chained when he grabbed Connor at the edge of his unlocked cell. I will have to check it out on the tape.

Regards,
 

Everlasting Gobstopper

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I thought he was chained, but not to the floor. I assume he was still chained when he grabbed Connor at the edge of his unlocked cell. I will have to check it out on the tape.
That's certainly how I saw it. However, the even bigger inconsistency came between Awakening and Soulless. At the end of Awakening, Angelus was strapped to a table and locked in a cage. At the beginning of Soulless, no table. Now, did someone go in the, unstrap him, and move the table out?
 

DeborahK

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I agree with Jason here. Willow just didn't seem like Willow at all. But at least she finally seems to have lost all vestiges of that breathy way of speaking she has always had. And that is a relief -- the character had long since outgrown that mannerism.

Deborah
 

Patrick Sun

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I think being under Buffy's shadow makes Willow behave rather passively.

We all play roles depending on who is around us, and we act differently with different people and circles of friends and family.

Most of us would not do a lot of cursing in front of their mothers, but among friends, it's different, you let your hair down and let loose some invectives when the mood strikes or the opportunity presents itself.

So when Willow shows up in LA, she gets to strut her stuff, and without that spectre of "you better not over-do the magic, or Buffy'll have to take you out, or we'll lose you to the dark side." Willow's simply acting much freer in the presence of the crew at Angel's, and she's coming in as the specialist and is amply confident in her abilities.
 

DeborahK

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One more comment from me: I was gratified by the flashbacks that filled in some more decades in Angel's backstory. The gulf between the homeless and starving Angel we saw in "Becoming" and the one we saw in "Are You Now or Have You Ever Been ..." has always bothered me. The two are still not completely reconciled, but "Orpheus" smoothed it out a bit.

Deborah
 

Dan Paolozza

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Well, I like the lack of self-doubt. I thought Willow had grown out of a lot of it by (Buffy) Season 5. The insane magnitude of her self-doubt these days is nothing short of pathetic, and I miss "liking" the character (speaking for myself, of course).

Yes, it (the self-doubt thing) was all but abolished for this episode of Angel, but if I had a choice of last night's Willow, or the Willow from Sept '01 up to now, I'll take last night's. I'm hoping the shift carries over to BTVS, (it will be one less thing contributing to the holding pattern), but something tells me that's wishful thinking. I guess when Willow gets transported to the "Angelverse," her character needs to be massaged to fit.

Especially when they also need her appearence for "gimmick" purposes.
 

Steve Felix

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The episode was good yet about as weak as it could have been given the actors and circumstances on hand. It was essentially rehashing and got by on inherent coolness. A Joss script probably would have elevated it.

For instance, the "How have you been?" / "[character arc summarized to humorous phrase]" joke has been covered, and was at its peak with Buffy and Amy: "'Dead.' 'Rat.'"

I too considered that Evil Cordy may have temporarily applied an anti-demon effect to Connor to make him think he had more in common with her. Her mission for a couple episodes has been to solidify their relationship. (This explanation is a stretch because Cordy expressed such surprise that Angelus was in the hotel, but I hope it's good enough for Ms. Espenson.)

I'm quite sure Fred wasn't hitting on Willow; the look on her face when Willow said "I'm seeing someone" out of nowhere was priceless. I think Willow said that to put her own feelings in check.

To me, laugh of the night was easily Faith's brazen insensitivity to Connor after she beat him up: (while his head is down) "Yeah, it was pretty funny."
 

Phil Tomaskovic

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WGN is rebroadcasting on Sunday Mar 23 at 8pm (central time). At least in Chicago, I'm not sure if the cable superstation programs differently ever from the local.
 

Robert Ringwald

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months ago in the same timeslot - birds of prey managed 3.0/4
Angel's Wednesday Debut 3.2/4
The following week 2.9/4
Improved the next week 3.1/4
Improved again the next week 3.3/5
UNKNOWN Info for CALVARY
SALVAGE *faith's return* 3.6/5
RELEASE *2nd Faith Episode* 3.3/5
ORPHEUS *last nights* 3.5/5

I'd assume Willow boosted the ratings a little, as did the continuation of the Faith storyline. I wonder how next week will perform without Faith or Willow or any other guest stars.
 

Adam_ME

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I wonder how next week will perform without Faith or Willow or any other guest stars.
Hey now! There is a guest star next week, and a couple guests the week after. Not ratings boosters, but they're all cool characters that I'm interested in seeing again.
 

Robert Ringwald

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I'm interested too, but I happen to know a lot of Buffy fans who haven't watched ANGEL in a while who tuned in simply for FAITH and WILLOW. So I'm wondering if they'll stick around even without them too.

I'm personally glad the ratings have had a bit of a boost lately. The show really is doing so well creatively, I really can't wait to see what Joss has in store for next season (assuming WB renews the show).
 

Phil Florian

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Actually, where CAN they go with the show next year? I really hope they don't do a Buffy and keep it around a bit longer than it should have. Don't get me wrong, I have been faithful with the show and there is still some great TV coming out of ME with it, but as a concept, it really doesn't have as much to offer in its current form since even college was left behind. While I would hate to have NO Joss on next season, I would prefer that to a year of only so-so Angel. I mean, Angel has really come full circle in his tenure with Joss Whedon. He starts off the show looking for redeption with Buffy and gets his own show to continue that. He finally has a big face off with the demon within and defeats it. He has eschewed mortality more than once and has accepted the role as champion. Wolfram and Hart is gone, Faith is groovy, the gang is back together. Sure, more adventures await the heroes, but for a viewer, the arc has been completed, in my opinion. It wouldn't be a horrible place to end, if sad.

I think Joss would do well to either spin off another show (after these few weeks with Faith, she has a lot more stories to tell, I think...) with his Buffyverse or he could try something completely different (Firefly was a good, but expensive, stab and was fresh). We will have to see. There are only so many ways to up the ante from the last apocolypse (what was the plural of that??). Even BIGGER demon. Even MORE evil.

Phil
 

LarryDavenport

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The last three episodes in particular have been so good that I just hope the rest of the season holds up (what spoliers I have read give me hope).
 

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