The Eternal Angelriffic Thread (Merged) (1 Viewer)

[Ric Easton]

As much as I enjoyed many parts of tonights episode, I just felt the introduction of Willow seemed really forced. Fred called her in? Since when did they become buddy-buddy? I guess they became pen-pals after Willow broke the dead Buffy news to Angel and the gang when they returned with Fred from Lorne's dimension. The whole thing just seemed kind of sloppy to me. It would have made more sense if Wes called in Willow. And shouldn't Willow be a little busy with the gang back in Sunnydale?


...and Connor is a real twit! But I guess he's supposed to be!

Ric

 

[Everlasting Gobstopper]

I guess they became pen-pals after Willow broke the dead Buffy news to Angel and the gang when they returned with Fred from Lorne's dimension.

Except that Fred was a crazy recluse.

 

[Phil Tomaskovic]

I sent email to wgntv asking if they will rebroadcast it (or at least the last minutes). Remember the problem with the Buffy musical where people disn't know it was over an hour long and they showed it again (albeit edited down).

 

[Quentin]

At least you got to watch all but 5 minutes...we on the west coast get diddly squat. And, talk about no longer breaking news!!! They're just babbling on about what the missiles from 2 hours ago MIGHT have been and when we'll attack. Ugh.

 

[Jason Quillen]

Well, I sat the last two episodes out (needed a break, plus it was Exam Round 1 at UD) and I gotta get up early tomorrow, but heres a couple notes about tonights ep...

- Generally, I'm not a fan of the 1/2 flashback, 1/2 "real time" stories - but they pulled tonights off. Development in both areas, and both were entertaining. And come on - did anyone think Faith would get to leave LA without a dream sequence? Gotta love it.

- Willow didn't really start clicking until her exit - she seemed forced, rough around the edges, and too goofy (at times). And what was that...thing going on with Fred? Weird.

- I've come to the conclusion that Wes is the best written character on the show - in development, continuity, and just how interesting he is. Everything just works - all that, combined with Alexis's great acting is just awesome.

- (Some speculation down the line in this one) Cordy's starting to ride the "Giles doesn't touch anything" fence. Make no mistake - Cordy is being used 100x better - the manipulation is interesting, and its a good change for the character (who was becoming useless) - but theres 2 problems. 1 - The problem of "everyone in the dark"...no one knowing (or even suspicious) of anything going on. 2 - The irreversibly factor. I don't want it to come down to episode 22 and have Angel about to kill Cordy (after a dramatic inner struggle) and then BAM! The baby is born! And guess what? It wasn't Cordy that was the evil manipulator - it was the baby! Just like Conner inside Darla! If Cordy is gonna be evil manipulative bitch it's gotta be seen through - no cheap dives at the end so Charisma can have a job next year.

- Faith was well done, inspired, and just... perfect. Didnt seem gratuitous or anything. The carryover to Sunnydale was also nice (though I wish UPN could've lined up the episodes...)

- Angel vs Angelus battle - VERY cool. Again, I pity anyone that reads spoilers - to not know this was coming was great. And the red eye/mouth thing at the end was cool.

- Speaking of which, some very cool effects in tonights episode - the red eye/mouth, Angelus 'rising' up like Dracula, the walking through people (which didn't have that 'computerized' feel). Did Angel withhold on special effects for a little bit to save up? Regardless, it was all well done and not taken to an extreme.

All in all? Another stellar episode of Angel, kids.

**Angel - 4.15 - Orpheus - 9 Angelriffic Points (Out of 10)

I hope tonight conscience Matrix-ish-ness wasn't lost on anyone - hell, it was all over the place - title, Angel vs Angelus, on and on...

JQ

 

[Quentin]

Spoke too soon! I got it! Great episode...

 

[Dan Rudolph]

I happen to love the half flashback format. I give this episode thumbs up. Also, assumimg Cordelia doesn't drop cover now, if Connor doesn't figure out what's going on he's even dumber than I thought.

 

[PhilipG]

I hope tonight conscience Matrix-ish-ness wasn't lost on anyone - hell, it was all over the place - title, Angel vs Angelus, on and on...

Yup, absolutely lost on me. I thought the title was all about Connor killing Angel and sleeping with his "mother" (well, one-time potential step-mother), Cordelia.

As for Angel vs Angelus - I think that's more a Superman III reference, as has already been pointed out.

 

[Scott Kimball]

Thankfully, with Dish Network's Superstation Package, I can get the WB in 3 time zones.

I missed the 9:00 (which lost the last 10 minutes), the 10:00 didn't air, but KTLA broke away from CNN coverage at midnight EST to air Angel in its entirety.

Good show.

-S

 

[Lance Nichols]

This episode was fantastic. Loved Willow showing up and being more herself on Angel, then she has been on Buffy of late. Over on Buffy the writers are still trying to paint themselves out of last year's corner, IMHO. Hey everyone, Willow is a SUPER powerful witch. In many ways, stronger then Buffy, IMHO. She did tap and channel enough power to destroy the world, after all. The darkness speach between her and Wes was good, does Wes know she is gay? I would have assumed so, and that the two gangs do keep in touch somewhat. However, it seemed like Willow was trying to find some way to tell him this, with the "oh, a few minor things have changed".

Would have loved a direct face-to-face battle with Cordy and Willow, but still good.

Conner better wake up and smeel the manipulation flavored coffee soon. Ok, so he didn't have much exposure to other humans while growing up, but to use a Cordy phrase: "Hello?!?"

Loved the incorperation of some of the "traditional" vampire powers in the dreamscape, like Angelus' levitation.

Was it me, or did the whole gang do a bit of a double take when Willow told Fred she was seeing someone at the end? Like no one had got the fact that Fred was hitting on Willow?

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

It's funny how everyone wants Fred to be hitting on Willow. The scene plays way funnier if Fred is just geeking out, Willow takes it as a come-on, and everyone else doesn't know how to react. Methinks some of you are watching too many Miller Lite commercials, and you are looking for attractive lesbians everywhere now.

Regards,

 

[Phil Florian]

...and this is a bad thing because...?



While I am firmly in the camp of more lesbians on television, I didn't take it as Fred hitting on Willow. I think it was the total blabbing Fred just doing her thing and Willow making the mistake. It was funny that way. They had some fun chemistry together in all their geekiness but they would want to kill each other if they had to be with each other daily. Too much research competition.

Best scene of the night for me was the scene with Willow and Wes talking about how much they have both changed. I am so glad they are finally really addressing Wesley's shift over the last couple seasons. He looks like he misses the old Wes as much as I do, sometimes. That was great. Them comparing darkness was scary and a hoot all at the same time. Didn't know whether to giggle or cringe. Great television last night. Hope they don't drag out the Cordelia thing, now.


"Bring it on, Glenda."


Phil

 

[Jason Seaver]

Entertaining but sloppy. I enjoyed most of the Faith stuff, and the flashbacks, but this didn't really do much to lessen my disdain for crossovers. Willow seemed out of character; as much fun as the breezy, confident Willow is, Miss Rosenberg is just full of self-doubt which at no point seemed to be evident here.

And then there's the exposition-heavy recapping dialogue. I guess folks enjoy it from the comments, but it strikes me as a waste of time, what with me watching both shows and all.

And then there's the writers not being able to agree on a set of rules. They make a concerted effort to show that the anti-demon-violence spell affects Connor last week, but not this week, because... um... because "Cordelia" said so without giving a reason. Weak. Not quite so weak was the shifting rules inside Faith and Angelus's Dream-time thing. That at least made a certain kind of sense, since it had shifted from being about Angelus's impotence for the past hundred years to Faith having to make decisions and take responsibility.

Still, it wasn't a bad episode, just (again) sloppy; I wonder if it was done quickly because the Angel producers didn't get the OK from UPN to use Alyson until the last minute. I'm starting to think they really can't go wrong with Eliza Dushku (which bodes very well indeed for Buffy's final act), and the pairing of Gunn and Willow had surprisingly good chemistry. Charisma's actually working well as a villainess, even with her puffy face working against her.

Of course, I'm kind of surprised the cops haven't come for Wesley for aiding/abetting/harboring an escaped prisoner yet. Sure, it's only been a couple of days in-show, but it's not like they had to do a whole lot of detective work. (Of course, the LAPD probably has a pretty full table right now)

 

[Paul P]

Solid episode. The superman III thing rocked, though I actually thought it was done better in superman III. Willow's intro seemed pretty weak, but it definitely picked up when she spoke with Wes(gee, why would they have chemistry? ).

Yup, absolutely lost on me. I thought the title was all about Connor killing Angel and sleeping with his "mother" (well, one-time potential step-mother), Cordelia.

Ok, time for a lesson in greek mythology. The title of this episode is Orpheus. Morpheus, as you refer, is the god of dreams and a character in the matrix. PhilipG, you're referring to Oedipus, the greek character from the sophocles trilogy who killed his father and married his mother. Orpheus(the actual title of the episode), however, was a greek musician whose wife Eurydice was killed. He went into Hades(hell) to get her back, and was told to walk out, and she would be behind him all along the way. If he turned around to check for her at any point along the way, however, she would disappear. He agreed, walked out, and of course couldn't resist checking. She was there and faded away forever. He was also the muse that sang on Jason and the Argonauts, and somehow later disgruntled followers of dionysus, so they tore him to shreds. His pieces were scattered but his head supposedly floated down the river of hebrus, still singing(almost like lorne in season 2, now that I think about it).

 

[Patrick Sun]

Folks, pre-emptions of TV shows at this time has nothing to do with TV stations treating Angel fans like second class customers. Please, no more moaning and groaning about the pre-emptions because those posts will be and have been removed.

 

[Adam_ME]

They make a concerted effort to show that the anti-demon-violence spell affects Connor last week, but not this week, because... um... because "Cordelia" said so without giving a reason.

Come to think of it, the spell must've been lifted by Evil Cordy cuz how else would Connor be able to stake Angel or duke it out with Faith in the basement?

 

[Paul P]

I thought the spell limited demon violence, hence Lorne not being able to hit connor. I think it prevents demons from harming others, such as lorne not being able to hit connor, but cordy being able to. Connor and Faith would be fine, though, since they're both human. Y'know it's funny, I was listening to the Jane Espenson commentary on the angel dvd season 1 set, and she talks about consistencies, and how sometimes the writers screw up. According to her it doesn't matter, though, because the fans somehow figure out a way for it to make sense, solving the problems for the writers. I guess we are now an example of that.

 

[Dan Rudolph]

Cordelia has some strong mojo of her own and was able to lift or at least temporarily stop the spell.

I think Willow was acting much more confident here because she's away from TFE's area of influence and thus doesn't have to worry abotu it hijackign her body when she tries using her powers. She's in a (relatively) safe environment and that gives her a chance to relax.

And I don't think Wesley knows Willow's gay. Thus the "Are there any other big changes I'm not up on" line.

 

[Adam_ME]

And I don't think Wesley knows Willow's gay. Thus the "Are there any other big changes I'm not up on" line.

It would make sense for Wes to be unaware of this. Unless Cordy went and blabbed about it to everyone after Willow told her over the phone in "Disharmony", when would he have found out? I seriously doubt Willow mentioned it during her visit at the end of Season 2 after Buffy died.

 

[Jason Seaver]

I think it prevents demons from harming others, such as lorne not being able to hit connor, but cordy being able to. Connor and Faith would be fine, though, since they're both human.

Except that they specifically showed Connor being affected by the spell last week.