The Era of "You Want Extras Ya Gotta Pay For 'Em" Is In Full Swing (1 Viewer)

[Joe Karlosi]

I think it's time for the DVD industry to advance into high definition (in other words, start making Blu-ray the rule rather than an exception). No use in sticking with the horse and carriage now that we've got the automobile, so to speak. In order to boost sales of Blu-ray I think cutting back on the bells and whistles for DVD is at least somewhat of a step in the right direction. And the prices of Blu-ray discs need to be more compatible with SD. You want to spend only $9.99 for a regular DVD? fine -- but then that's all you get is standard quality and no extras. If Blu-ray discs could have all the bonuses in addition to their superior visual quality, and come down to around $19.99 retail (plus there will be discounts of course) , then that would help get them moving.

By the way, since going over to Blu I have acquired about 12 titles.. and I never paid as high as $30 for any of them.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

My attitude and thoughts are just honesty. I was clueless for a long time about High Definition, but not anymore, thankfully.

I am on a limited income too, by the way - probably more limited than you or most here. I am in my 40s, I rent an apartment with my wife and don't have a house. My wife was hurt over a year ago and there's now only one salary coming into the home. Still, I like my hobbies.

As for being a "jerk" (you'd really do well to watch it with the namecalling), I've learned over the years from reading posts like yours, I suppose.

Anyway - this sounds very familiar to me. I heard the same thing when music CDs were introduced, and then DVD itself. At first everyone expressed similar thoughts... today, everyone is pretty much a CD and DVD library owner. Believe it or not, back when DVD was just starting out, there were laserdisc fans who were irate about it. Even the IMAGE company which specialized in laserdiscs was reluctant to get involved with DVD, and I recall an announcement one day in their monthly newsletter when they first caved in and introduced their debut DVD - THE TERMINATOR - where the representative wrote something in his column like: "The DVD will be released, but with no extras. If you want extras, buy the Laserdisc, because that's for the collectors" (or words to this effect).

A great thing about Blu-ray collecting is that you can still play your vast SD library on the machine, and even upconverted if the settings are right. I am still enjoying my SD's on the Blu-ray player. It's the best of both worlds, like having a turntable and cassette player built into your CD player. So c'mon and jump in - the water is fine, and there's nothing to fear.

 

[rich_d]

I'll share my perspective but let's not turn this into another 'it's time to go Blu-Ray thread.' First, this is the SD forum and second, this is a thread about extras not formats.

I think your mindset is understandable, but doesn't speak to the demographic that is going to drive the market. I don't think most young people have CD collections or even think that way. They have their music on laptops or MP3 devices. Point being that it's not about moving from one format to have in your library to a more evolved format in your library. It's about libraries in the physical sense as a viable concept.

So, I question the longevity of Blu-Ray discs as a sales driver. It's not like moving from records to CDs or VHS to DVD ... those days are over. So, why not just Netflix Blu-Ray discs (for the moment) and call it a day?

The economy is also no friend to the hi-def era either. Years of people buying 720p units have now shifted to people getting their 42" Vizio at Costco. And the difference between SD (upconverted) and Blu-Ray on a 42" set isn't going to knock people's socks off. This doesn't even include the people that are just going to put off HDTV and Blu-Ray players for another year.

Bottom line, cheap SD releases are the driver of sales. Walking away from those people right now is like walking away with the saddle and forgetting the horse. Thus bringing it back to the discussion at hand, walking away extras from the format that drives the market would be sales/marketing suicide.

 

[Eric Huffstutler]

I see a couple of different things going on here. One deals with baseline prices and gaps while the other deals with extras contained on them.

I am one of the original DVD buyers and can remember the days when you could purchase a single disc between $10-14 and a double for only a couple of dollars more. Now the gap is wider and the extras don't amount to much. I have a few "collectors sets" with second discs that has all of maybe 20-30 minutes of extras. What a waste. Another for me personally are the commentaries. I have about 2,000 discs and may have listened to probably 6 commentaries all the way through! They just don't interest me and the extra space taken up by them could accommodate the "extras". Hell, even trailers have become scarce or misplaced not showing up on the release disc but on some other title. Or even on a cheap early version but not on a "ultimate" comprehensive set - who came up with that strategy?

The days of getting all for nothing are gone and the studios are feeling the pinch of a soft market. I say give me one good and complete making of featurette, some archival extras (older shorts or newsreels the studios have on hand), and the trailer then call it a day. Drop those storyboards, scripts, 5 extra featurettes that repeat themselves, boring commentaries, digital discs, etc... then drop the price to something more in line to what people can afford and willing to pick up. To go eco-friendly and save on production costs, I will even settle for slimline packaging - which is something the studios should have done in the first place.

Eric

 

[David_B_K]

Posted by Joe Karlosi:
Your examples are poor. There have been many discussions already on this and other forums as to whether the gap between SD DVD and Blu-ray is as great as the jump from VHS to SD DVD. There is no comparison between 12" scratchy vinyl records and CDs. Likewise, a linear format like VHS cannot compare to a digital format like SD DVD which provides instant access to scenes, special features, etc.

Also, the "extra features" was one of the highly touted reasons for consumers to go from VHS to DVD. So, you are talking about scaling back one format just so your preferred format will appeal to more people. People made the move to CDs beacuse they preferred it to scratchy vinyl which warped easily. People preferred SD DVD with its instant access and extra features. They would not have upgraded if they liked what they already had.

With SD DVD and Blu-ray, there is still a sizeable amount of the population (in a soft economy at that) who still likes SD DVD pretty well. If people don't prefer Blu-ray for its own merits, then that's just too damned bad.

 

[Alan Tully]

I still have (& love) my Sony 32" CRT telly. I may buy a Plasma (never LCD!) in a few years time, but until then, I'm SD.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

I certainly can relate, because I was explaining these very exact "differences in theory" myself when I was still resisting Blu-ray up till only last month. To be frank, l guess what happened is that Blu-ray changed my mind.

Oh, and there were and still are people who prefer vinyl, you know - they feel it has a "fuller" sound, and not all records are "scratchy" if you take care of them...

But one thing I will add is that no, all people didn't just willingly go from vinyl to CD or VHS to DVD because of their conveniences and improvements ... I knew lots of people who adamantly resisted AND RESENTED having to make choices which, they felt, were forced onto them at one point. I had friends who told me they were angry that they had to change over. Once the stores started catering more to CD and DVD, they relented... and were then sold on the formats, too... but not everyone jumped over willingly at first, right out of the gate.

The only thing that is going to be "too damned bad" (your words) is when High Definition is the #1 format, and people will be owning it. But they'll wind up embracing it and loving it, so it won't hurt them - and what's more, they'll still be playing their upconverted SD's.

 

[RickER]

I was in Best Buy last week, did you guys know they sell records again! New records, not 25 year old ones, new ones from new groups. Sure, i saw old titles too, but i was shocked.

This thread made me think of that.

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Yes, I saw the records too. But I doubt it will come to anything.

 

[Film Syncs]

Virgin Megastores have been selling new records with new artists for many years. Admittedly, BB is a different matter so, yes that surprises me.

 

[cineMANIAC]

That Digital Copy "extra" is what's driving, I believe, the price of DVDs upward somewhat and it's something I can totally live without. Also, the economy doesn't affect my buying habits. Watching movies is my favorite hobby and it sure beats bar-hopping or clubbing the night away and thats never gonna change. As for the original topic of this thread, extras are always good to have, especially on older, cultish flicks but I simply don't buy that we should pay more for them since, like I said, most of it is fluff & filler. Commentaries are a total waste unless they are on older movies, moderated by an expert on that particular film and it helps if it is subtitled. What I care about the most is that the film be completely uncut and it is in its OAR. That's all.

 

[David_B_K]

Posted by Joe Karlosi:
I do not have a problem with Blu-ray succeeding. I do not have one yet, as I have been beset with some financial setbacks this year. When I think I can afford the player and software, I'll get into it. I would much prefer to watch my movies in HD. I just think it is lame to try to sell the format by saying "switch to Blu-ray to see the extras we stole off your DVDs!". If the format wins over more people with its better PQ, fine. If not, that is just too damned bad.

 

[Christopher*KH]

I have bought alot of my dvds used from BB after they get done renting them out. If its a title like Lord of the Rings or something along those lines then yeah I will buy it new. But i like the 2 for $20 @14.99 or under OR 4 for [email protected] and under Used. I only have to wait like a couple of weeks after release and pop in the store and pick what I want. Granted I have gotten tired of wading through the garbage "they" call "special features"...ALSO I am Really Ticked at paying $20+ for a HUGE MONEY MAKING SUMMER TITLE and the Quality of the Picture looks like something from some 3rd rate hack job studio. Title in question is the SD of TDK...Which is a WARNER title. Pay top dollar for less than top dollar quality. As for BLU-Ray.. I have TOO MUCH invested in what I own now to switch. Just as long as the studios dont down-grade SD dvd for the express purpose pushing BLU..I will be ok with or with out fancy Special Features... I will just buy USED...unless...

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays

 

[Frank@N]

Isn't it interesting that Warner bombs like 'Death to Smoochy' and 'Catwoman' get reference quality transfers while the TDK gets poor PQ/SQ/extras?

Clearly we're being pushed to BLU, but I'm really not too surprised. Warner killed HD DVD and now they're digging DVD's grave.

 

[Tony J Case]

Switch to an overpriced, studio mandated format that doesn't look all that much better over normal DVD? Forget that - I'll just stop buying all together!

 

[Joe Karlosi]

Just like they said about DVD and CD.

Suuurrre you will...

 

[Shaun]

Joe,

I appreciate your enthusiasm for Blu-Ray and I can definitelly relate. I've stopped buying DVDs completey and only buy Blu-Rays now. As a fan of movies and as a home theater enthusiast, I love the high definition picture and lossless soundtracks that the technology provides and I understand that it provides us with the best quality to view our favorite movies. But that's no reason to cheat those that only have DVD players, even if Blu-Ray ends up as the new standard in watching movies at home some day later down the road.

You keep mentioning the changes from Vinyl to CD and VHS to DVD. However, those were revolutionary leaps in technology that offered a substantial upgrade in not just quality, but ease of use, convenience, durability, portability, interactivity, storage space, etc. At this time, I just don't think Blu-Ray is as big a leap over DVD to warrant such an opinion. What else has the technology really given us, at this point, other than the improved picture and sound quality, that's such an improvement over standard DVD? Most of the "features" that we get with Blu-Ray are very similar to what we already get with DVD (special features, interactive games, menu navigation, multiple audio-tracks, seamless branching, etc.). And keep in mind, to really enjoy the advantages of Blu-Ray (high definition video, lossless audio), you NEED relatively expensive equipment. Not everyone has or can afford a big widescreen DLP/LCD/Plasma 1080p television or a fancy surround sound system, especially in this economy. When DVD first came around, you didn't need to have an expensive TV set or audio system to see it's advantages over VHS. They were clear from the beginning, even on a standard box tv. It was a huge leap. Blu-Ray, not so much.

In other words, what would differentiate Blu-Ray from DVD on a portable Blu-Ray player (if they came out with one)? What would differentiate Blu-Ray from DVD on a standard (non-widescreen) box TV or viewing it on a computer/laptop? To most eyes, only one thing, the blue box that the disc comes in.

 

[Tony J Case]

Nope - I have more movies than I'll be able to watch in a long time and I refuse to go back to a LD pricing scheme 10 years after the fact. I *WILL* walk away before making the jump to a format that offers NOTHING better than what we have right now.

 

[Jeff Willis]

So far I agree with Tony. My main reasons are that I also have a large backlog of un-viewed DVD's (mainly TV/DVD's). The other reasons are that BR is still young and the catalog titles aren't large enough for me with the older films and TV/DVD releases. Another reason is, for what I mainly watch, the upconverted Std DVD's on my 50" Plasma set look good enough for me to last a while before upgrading to BR. The last reason is "region-free" questions regarding BR. Being R-Free is a big issue for me.

Having said that, I am happy to see BR continuing to grow and glad to see that it's available for the BR consumers.

 

[TravisR]

Huh? I don't see any studio trying to go back to the laserdisc pricing scheme. A barebones laserdisc would cost about $40 and a laserdisc special edition would cost about $100 but you can buy a Blu-ray special edition for $25. That's less than $10 more than you would pay for the DVD.