The Day of the Doctor (Doctor Who 50th Anniversary Special) (1 Viewer)

[Lromero1396]

In Doctor Who-related news, the DVD release of The Moonbase apparently has been slowed down to 24p, according to a number of Amazon reviews. The master created from the 25fps film recordings restored using VIDFIRE to restore the 50i video look should simply be encoded in 60i for NTSC release without screwing with the framerate or the speed. So not only is it slowed down, the video look is gone. I hope this is a one-off authoring error by Warner Home Video/BBC Worldwide. In the meantime, I'll be canceling my pre-order for The Web of Fear and holding off on pre-ordering NTSC releases of Enemy of the World and The Underwater Menace (whenever the hell WHV & BBC decide to release those over here in the states) until it is confirmed they are at the proper 60i NTSC standard. Absolutely unacceptable!

Edit: I don't see any similar complaints for the UK edition of The Moonbase, so I'm going to assume that it's safe.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Maybe it's BBC Worldwide policy to screw up every show they have in this manner for R1 release.

Obviously they've been doing it to some shows since late-2012, but now it seems to be line wide.

 

[Bryan Tuck]

I wonder if any of the other releases have the same audio problems as Day of the Doctor. I've seen it discussed on other forums, so it's not just my system.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

I wonder if any of the other releases have the same audio problems as Day of the Doctor. I've seen it discussed on other forums, so it's not just my system.

Red Dwarf X.

The theme music and voices sounding lower and slower was my first clue that something was wrong with the episodes.

Of course, it was this thread that confirmed my suspicions as to what had been done.

 

[Bryan Tuck]

Red Dwarf X.

The theme music and voices sounding lower and slower was my first clue that something was wrong with the episodes.

Of course, it was this thread that confirmed my suspicions as to what had been done.

If the voices are actually lower, they may not have even bothered pitch-correcting. DOTD is pitch-corrected, and I don't know if it has anything to do with it, but when the 5.1 soundtrack is downconverted to stereo, the music and SFX come out flanged. It sounds downright awful in places.

I've sent emails to various departments at BBC, but the only response I got was a number in the UK to call. May try that when I have time, but it doesn't seem like they care.

 

[David Weicker]

In Doctor Who-related news, the DVD release of The Moonbase apparently has been slowed down to 24p, according to a number of Amazon reviews. The master created from the 25fps film recordings restored using VIDFIRE to restore the 50i video look should simply be encoded in 60i for NTSC release without screwing with the framerate or the speed. So not only is it slowed down, the video look is gone. I hope this is a one-off authoring error by Warner Home Video/BBC Worldwide. In the meantime, I'll be canceling my pre-order for The Web of Fear and holding off on pre-ordering NTSC releases of Enemy of the World and The Underwater Menace (whenever the hell WHV & BBC decide to release those over here in the states) until it is confirmed they are at the proper 60i NTSC standard. Absolutely unacceptable!

Edit: I don't see any similar complaints for the UK edition of The Moonbase, so I'm going to assume that it's safe.

According the the "Doctor Who Video FAQ" site (great place for Doctor Who video news)

MOONBASE MASTERING ERROR - UPDATE

Due to a tight schedule, Worldwide Americas had this DVD authored in the US

instead of the UK (as they normally do). In the process of converting this from

the PAL video system, it should’ve been authored as interlaced

video at 60 fields per second, however, the US engineers instead treated this as

if it were progressive video. This has resulted in the loss of the VidFIRE

video-look effect, and the episodes play slightly slower than they should play;

they’re about 1 minute longer than they ought to be. They did apply a digital

pitch-correction so that the sound didn’t lower in pitch. It’s still playable, still

looks good, (and the detail in the pictures is noticeably better than it was on the

Lost in Time release) but the video-look is absent, and it does run 4% slow.



I’ve been receiving many questions asking if Worldwide Americas will recall or

reissue this title given this mistake. They apparently will not.



This was a one-time error owing to the US mastering. Upcoming DVDs, including

The Web of Fear, have been authored in the UK as normal, and so this problem

should not reoccur.

 

[Lromero1396]

According the the "Doctor Who Video FAQ" site (great place for Doctor Who video news)

MOONBASE MASTERING ERROR - UPDATE
Due to a tight schedule, Worldwide Americas had this DVD authored in the US
instead of the UK (as they normally do). In the process of converting this from
the PAL video system, it should’ve been authored as interlaced
video at 60 fields per second, however, the US engineers instead treated this as
if it were progressive video. This has resulted in the loss of the VidFIRE
video-look effect, and the episodes play slightly slower than they should play;
they’re about 1 minute longer than they ought to be. They did apply a digital
pitch-correction so that the sound didn’t lower in pitch. It’s still playable, still
looks good, (and the detail in the pictures is noticeably better than it was on the
Lost in Time release) but the video-look is absent, and it does run 4% slow.


I’ve been receiving many questions asking if Worldwide Americas will recall or
reissue this title given this mistake. They apparently will not.


This was a one-time error owing to the US mastering. Upcoming DVDs, including
The Web of Fear, have been authored in the UK as normal, and so this problem
should not reoccur.

Thank heaven! Really pisses me off that we're getting the shaft over here, but I can always get the UK disc. Just have to pay import and shipping fees. Grrr.
I'm glad BBC has learned their lesson not to author over here.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Thank heaven! Really pisses me off that we're getting the shaft over here, but I can always get the UK disc. Just have to pay import and shipping fees. Grrr.
I'm glad BBC has learned their lesson not to author over here.

I've been ordering things from the UK for almost two decades now and have never had to pay any import fees (i.e. "duty").

Also, unless you have a multi-system TV and a multi-system player (i.e. a player that can output an unconverted PAL picture, and a TV that can display a PAL native picture), you still won't be able to see the VidFire effect.

 

[Lromero1396]

I've been ordering things from the UK for almost two decades now and have never had to pay any import fees (i.e. "duty").

Also, unless you have a multi-system TV and a multi-system player (i.e. a player that can output an unconverted PAL picture, and a TV that can display a PAL native picture), you still won't be able to see the VidFire effect.

It must be the overseas shipping which drives the cost up. I do have a multi-region DVD player (actually a BD player capable of playing DVDs from any region), but not a multi-system TV. And I have no idea how to set the output to PAL or whatever if that's even an option on it. So you're saying it won't look like video in that case? Will there be obvious stuttering artifacts in the image? Or will it just plain look like a film-type frame rate? I'm a major noob regarding multi-region stuff.

 

[smithbrad]

It must be the overseas shipping which drives the cost up. I do have a multi-region DVD player (actually a BD player capable of playing DVDs from any region), but not a multi-system TV. And I have no idea how to set the output to PAL or whatever if that's even an option on it. So you're saying it won't look like video in that case? Will there be obvious stuttering artifacts in the image? Or will it just plain look like a film-type frame rate? I'm a major noob regarding multi-region stuff.

When ordering from Amazon UK they will remove the VAT charge already in the listed price when shipping to the US, which I find typically compensates for the additional shipping charge.

Without supporting a PAL output the signal will have to be converted to NTSC for playback. Not an uncommon situation for many that buy region 2 for playback in the US. I don't enough about VidFire to know what impact that has.

I've only dealt with projection systems when supporting PAL playback. There has never been a setting for me to select, the system just identifies what the source is and plays it back. I would assume a TV would do the following if it supports PAL.

 

[Lromero1396]

When ordering from Amazon UK they will remove the VAT charge already in the listed price when shipping to the US, which I find typically compensates for the additional shipping charge.

Without supporting a PAL output the signal will have to be converted to NTSC for playback. Not an uncommon situation for many that buy region 2 for playback in the US. I don't enough about VidFire to know what impact that has.

I've only dealt with projection systems when supporting PAL playback. There has never been a setting for me to select, the system just identifies what the source is and plays it back. I would assume a TV would do the following if it supports PAL.

VidFIRE was developed to make a 25fps film recording look like a 50i video recording by interpolating the frames lost in the film recording process.

If we're dealing with a 60i NTSC output conversion, how would that mean that it would lose the video look? Would there be artifacting or stutter?

Also, since my player can output 1080p via HDMI, would that also cause problems in the display of the converted PAL signal?

Also, unless you have a multi-system TV and a multi-system player (i.e. a player that can output an unconverted PAL picture, and a TV that can display a PAL native picture), you still won't be able to see the VidFire effect.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

If your TV doesn't support native PAL framerates, the video has to be converted to NTSC before being upscaled by the player (or TV) to 1080, so yes, whether or not the TV supports PAL is still important and, yes, PAL still has to be converted to NTSC for TVs that don't specifically support PAL.

Whether your player is able to output a true PAL picture depends on your player. some players support separate, selectable output modes (normally, NTSC/PAL/MULTI). Some US players only support NTSC (meaning every PAL disc gets converted to NTSC within the player, whether you want it to be converted or not). Some US Blu-ray players complicate things further with 1080i/50 material, in that most of them are "either/or" in that they output it at the native 50hz (meaning if your TV isn't compatible, your're screwed) or at 60hz (meaning it gets converted whether you wish or not). Very few US blu-ray players allow you to select whether you want 50hz or 60hz output (Oppos are among these few).

It is the NTSC conversion process that negates (or, at least, reduces) the VidFire effect. This is because the built-in NTSC converters are not on the same level as the uber-expensive standards converters that professional broadcasters use (such as the Snell/Wilcox Alchemist, which is, I think, what is usually used for R1 BBC releases). Even the very excellent built-in converter of my Oppo BDP-83 shows very obvious artifacts when watching a PAL disc in NTSC conversion mode, though I admit, it looks much better than the conversion you get with, say, a Philips player.

All I'm saying is, if your TV and player both aren't PAL-compatible, don't expect the R2 release of "The Moonbase" to look as good as the retail R1 releases of other stories. In fact, depending on your player, it may not even look as good as the flawed R1 "Moonbase" release.

 

[Lromero1396]

If your TV doesn't support native PAL framerates, the video has to be converted to NTSC before being upscaled by the player (or TV) to 1080, so yes, whether or not the TV supports PAL is still important and, yes, PAL still has to be converted to NTSC for TVs that don't specifically support PAL.

Whether your player is able to output a true PAL picture depends on your player. some players support separate, selectable output modes (normally, NTSC/PAL/MULTI). Some US players only support NTSC (meaning every PAL disc gets converted to NTSC within the player, whether you want it to be converted or not). Some US Blu-ray players complicate things further with 1080i/50 material, in that most of them are "either/or" in that they output it at the native 50hz (meaning if your TV isn't compatible, your're screwed) or at 60hz (meaning it gets converted whether you wish or not). Very few US blu-ray players allow you to select whether you want 50hz or 60hz output (Oppos are among these few).

It is the NTSC conversion process that negates (or, at least, reduces) the VidFire effect. This is because the built-in NTSC converters are not on the same level as the uber-expensive standards converters that professional broadcasters use (such as the Snell/Wilcox Alchemist, which is, I think, what is usually used for R1 BBC releases). Even the very excellent built-in converter of my Oppo BDP-83 shows very obvious artifacts when watching a PAL disc in NTSC conversion mode, though I admit, it looks much better than the conversion you get with, say, a Philips player.

All I'm saying is, if your TV and player both aren't PAL-compatible, don't expect the R2 release of "The Moonbase" to look as good as the retail R1 releases of other stories. In fact, depending on your player, it may not even look as good as the flawed R1 "Moonbase" release.

Thanks for the info and the warning. I'll still go with the PAL imports, I think because having media which can eventually play properly after upgrading my HT system is more important to me than just having something that will play poorly no matter what. Plus, a lot of classic Doctor Who DVDs are OOP in R1 and going for crazy prices. Importing the UK editions is most often cheaper.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Thanks for the info and the warning. I'll still go with the PAL imports, I think because having media which can eventually play properly after upgrading my HT system is more important to me than just having something that will play poorly no matter what. Plus, a lot of classic Doctor Who DVDs are OOP in R1 and going for crazy prices. Importing the UK editions is most often cheaper.

Plus, the US version of The Chase is edited due to music rights issues, while R2's version still has the Beatles appearance intact.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Thanks for the info and the warning. I'll still go with the PAL imports, I think because having media which can eventually play properly after upgrading my HT system is more important to me than just having something that will play poorly no matter what. Plus, a lot of classic Doctor Who DVDs are OOP in R1 and going for crazy prices. Importing the UK editions is most often cheaper.

Yes, if you have future intentions of going "multi-system" down the road, I'd most definitely switch to R2 now. That's exactly what I did. Before I bought my first HDTV, I knew that when I eventually upgraded, it was going to be to multi-system equipment, and with the double incentive of the R2 Doctor Who discs being less expensive (in several cases, much less expensive when markdowns and R2 multi-story boxsets were considered), it was an easy decision to sell what few R1 titles I had, and start buying R2 ones.

Now that several R1 editions have gone OOP, I kinda wish I'd hung onto some of them a bit longer (one of those I sold years ago was "The Two Doctors"). I'd have come out even further ahead!

 

[Lromero1396]

Yes, if you have future intentions of going "multi-system" down the road, I'd most definitely switch to R2 now. That's exactly what I did. Before I bought my first HDTV, I knew that when I eventually upgraded, it was going to be to multi-system equipment, and with the double incentive of the R2 Doctor Who discs being less expensive (in several cases, much less expensive when markdowns and R2 multi-story boxsets were considered), it was an easy decision to sell what few R1 titles I had, and start buying R2 ones.

Now that several R1 editions have gone OOP, I kinda wish I'd hung onto some of them a bit longer (one of those I sold years ago was "The Two Doctors"). I'd have come out even further ahead!

I'll see how things go. Right now I'm planning to buy a mix of R1 and R2 discs simply due to my current system arrangement, unless the R1 titles are too expensive, of course.

Actually, collecting Doctor Who on home video is an expensive endeavor no matter what region you buy from.

On a somewhat unrelated note, does anyone know where I can get Series 1-4 of New Who for a reasonable price? They seem to be OOP at least in R1.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

I'll see how things go. Right now I'm planning to buy a mix of R1 and R2 discs simply due to my current system arrangement, unless the R1 titles are too expensive, of course.

Actually, collecting Doctor Who on home video is an expensive endeavor no matter what region you buy from.

On a somewhat unrelated note, does anyone know where I can get Series 1-4 of New Who for a reasonable price? They seem to be OOP at least in R1.

The Region 2 Series 1-4 Boxset is the best deal that I'm aware of. I bought it a year or two ago for around £35 (before VAT deduction if ordered through vendors like Amazon UK). It's currently going for that right now (about US$60, but this is all before you deduct about 17-18% VAT). It works out to less than $15 per series. Not bad at all!

 

[FoxyMulder]

(about US$60, but this is all before you deduct about 17-18% VAT). It works out to less than $15 per series. Not bad at all!

I sure wish our VAT was lower, unfortunately we pay an exorbitant 20%, way too high.

 

[Bryan Tuck]

Does anyone know if this "24p slowdown" affects the US release of The Time of the Doctor? The Blu-ray is listed as being 1080p, so I imagine it does, but I wonder if the DVD has it, also.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

Does anyone know if this "24p slowdown" affects the US release of The Time of the Doctor? The Blu-ray is listed as being 1080p, so I imagine it does, but I wonder if the DVD has it, also.

Unfortunately, the blu-ray in all regions is the 24p slowed-down version. The DVD should play at the correct speed, as it's shot on videotape and will be a straight PAL/50 to NTSC/60 conversion. Although it looks like it is filmed, Doctor Who is still shot on tape (albeit HD videotape) and is run through a film-look filter in post-production.