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The Dark Knight sequel discussion thread (casting, villians, etc) (1 Viewer)

Chuck Anstey

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I was also thinking of The Clock King as the next villian but I think I would prefer The Riddler like he was done in TAS; a super genius out for revenge on the manager or co-worker who stole his ideas as his own (and had him fired?). He doesn't care for general crime or Batman but when Batman interferes then he focuses on him. In Batman:TAS, The Riddler and The Clock King are very similar characters with similar motivations.

Whatever the villian, he/she needs to be extremely talented in whatever they do. Batman is over the top as a fighter, insane amount of endurance, and has access to super technology. The Joker was exceptionally violent and able to create anarchy like no other with everything coming together flawlessly. The Riddler would have to be a super genius that Batman cannot compete with even though he is very smart. The Clock King could also work as someone whose timing is so perfect they can jump off a bridge and land between two cars on the highway and get out of the way (and make it look easy) or lose Batman by rolling under a freight car of a fast moving train with perfect timing. Catwoman should have exceptional flexibilty, speed, and balance such that Batman cannot keep up with her as she walks from building to building on clothes / power lines or follow her through tiny openings that seem impossible for anyone to squeeze through.
 

Pete-D

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I think they should avoid other costumed characters altogether.

No Robin. No Catowoman. No Superman cameos. Again I think it just turns the franchise into "freak-ville" and lessens the impact of Batman.

Honestly, Edward Nigma (the Riddler), Talia Al Ghul, Bane, or even Clock King are all better fits into the Nolanverse.
 

Patrick Sun

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How about Ed Norton for the Riddler role? At least he'd come as smart as a whip if required. Unfortunately Norton can be a control freak.
 

Rolando

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How about the Man-Bat?

JUST KIDDING! I agree, no more costumed characters. No Mr Freeze or other such villains.

Riddler sounds best or just some new regular human villain. Any terrorist, crime boss, serial killer would be just fine.

Heck a simple serial killer mistery will be just fine with me.
 

Ruz-El

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Wait, did I miss something? I'm pretty sure in the Nolan films, Batman is a costumed vigilante called... ummm... Batman? If costumed super villains worked for 70 years of comics or whatever, they should be adaptable in a movie, regardless of the director. Otherwise you have a movie of the week cop show. Batman was always defined by his villians. Take away costumed characters, and you got a nut running about. Better for the Punisher frankly.
 

Inspector Hammer!

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I see both points in the costume argument, we must keep the costume villains but as Ledger demonstrated we need to stay away from neon day-glow colors here.

Have them costumed but grunge them up and bring them down to a naturalistic look and feel that coincides with the tone of the film and environment.
 

Ruz-El

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But then your repeating one of the many mistakes of the first series, where each villain was basically a goofy over played Joker, except this time, a dour gritty Joker....
 

Ruz-El

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I didn't mean to imply that you wanted over blown joker like characters. I was trying to say that by using the gritty route that the Joker is in the Nolan picture for all the villains, you fall in to the trap that Burton did where where every villain tried to be as wacky as Jack Nicholson was. I'm probably totally miss-reading your post, sorry for any confusion.

Really, it'd be kinda cool to have Riddler show up in a green suit with question marks all over it. It would totally stand him out from Scarecrow and Joker. A total egotist who flat out knows he's more clever then anyone else, and not scared to show it.
 

Andy Sheets

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Well said. It's nice that people dig Nolan's approach but there is a danger that it could go too far and crawl up its own ass (the comic book writers sort of already learned this lesson). Next thing you know, everyone's wondering why Bruce Wayne has to dress up as a bat in the first place, why does his technology need to be so elaborate, can't he do more to fight crime by donating tons of cash to legitimate law enforcement, etc.?
 

Inspector Hammer!

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My basic point is whichever villain(s) Nolan chooses as long as he uses his instincts and sensabilities (which so far are honed) they will fit into his world nicely.

But the trend you guys are referring to has already begun, both Scarecrow and the Joker were dressed down and grittier than what we've seen before and it's working so far, IMO it doesn't matter if Nolan keeps doing that as long as each villain is distinct and well performed by the chosen actor and or actress.
 

Rolando

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I feel I needed to be more detailed. I was actually in a hurry to finish my post (I am still at work) but here goes:
I think later posts said it best. What I meant was no crazy elaborate costumed villains. As I said I think Riddler would fit best but I did not get to add he might still wear a mask but to hide his identity more than to dress up as a villain. So many some kind of suit that happens to be green and a simple mask to avoid being identified. Not necesarily a bright green unitard with big interogation marks all over it.

Just like penguin can be a guy who always wears a tux as opposed to a deformed villain or a nutcase who goes around going "KWA KWA KWA!!"

some characters though like man-bat just cannot be done right (in my opinion) in the spirit and feel of the universe Nolan has created.
 

Pete-D

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The Riddler doesn't really even need to have a "costume" though.

He could be just like Jeremy Irons in DH3.

I think a third film though will inevitably swing things back to Batman being the true central character. In TDK the film does revolve around the Joker/Harvey Dent moreso than Batman Begins.

Here's a riddle ...

How do you top the Joker in "The Dark Knight"?

Answer: You don't.
 

MielR

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I liked Michelle Pfeiffer in that movie, too.

It would depend on how Nolan decides to depict Catwoman. Just because other film versions have been silly or over-sexualized doesn't mean that's how Nolan would interpret the character. I don't think Cesar Romero's or Jack Nicholson's versions of the Joker would have fit well, either.

Seeing what Nolan did with the Joker......I think he's capable of doing some really powerful, dramatic things with the Catwoman character.

But to me, it doesn't mater. Whichever villian he picks next is fine with me.
htf_images_smilies_smile.gif
 

Don Giro

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My sentiments exactly. Make her some sort of agile, hi-tech "cat burglar," where the Gotham media dub her "Catwoman" because of her actions and skills, rather than use any of the several "backstories" DC has used over the decades. Same as with the Joker, she doesn't NEED a backstory.

She certainly doesn't need to wear a mask with cat ears, nor does she need to be a "Kitten With a Whip" (pun intended) decked out like a latex dominatrix.

There has ALWAYS been sexual tension and chemistry between Batman and Catwoman, even in the Adam West TV show (the episode where after she's captured and cries that she'll "be an old kitty" by the time she's released from prison, but ends up telling him that when she's eventually sprung: "Have I got a girl for YOU..."). That chemistry and tension could work WONDERS in this film series. Hell, in "Birds of Prey," they've had a DAUGHTER together.

Catwoman could work if she's played as kind of a modern day Robin Hood. Have her steal gobs of cash from the well-to-do of Gotham (like Wayne Manor or the Wayne Foundation!), and then liberally sprinkle the money and jewels all over the working class in The Narrows. This would create chaos in Gotham and inner conflict for Batman. He'd disagree with her methods but admire her motives and abilities. His inner struggle then comes to a boil when he realizes that she exists only to HELP Gotham, not harm it. Just as he does. And of course, there would be even more conflict when he realizes that he desperately wants to...well...DO her (for lack of a better term at this point).

Can Catwoman CARRY an entire film? Maybe. Maybe not. Remember, these movies are made to appeal to a larger audience than us souls who post here. Some people I know had a BIG problem with "Batman Begins," because there were no "familiar" villains (to which I countered with the fact that we FINALLY got a movie that did not depend on "wacky" villains right away; this was a Batman film that was actually ABOUT Batman for a change).

One of the beauties of "Batman Begins" is that, as an origin story, it almost didn't make sense to introduce Batman's most familiar and formidable foe right away. Having the Joker show up almost immediately after Batman "introduced" himself to the world would have felt a little too "convenient" and almost too coincidental.

Nolan BRILLIANTLY set the ball in motion for the second film. We got Batman's most infamous foe this time because he set it up at the end of the first (and then threw in the Tragedy of Two-Face to boot), so the bar has been raised since "...Begins," and I don't see the franchise returning to the almost "small scale" of the first film by bypassing some of Batman's most famous foes.

There are millions of moviegoers out there with little or no exposure to the "Batman Universe" outside of the films who can at least recognize the characters of Riddler, Catwoman, and the Penguin. Using Talia, Harley Quinn, the Clock King, or Mad Hatter could actually be detrimental to the series because I believe the average moviegoer would feel "cheated," knowing there are several other MAJOR players who could have been used first. I know I would, even if "done right."

You can also count me in as one of those guys who never really "got" the appeal of Harley Quinn, anyway, so what do I know?

All I know is that it doesn't matter what Nolan does, because my a** will be in the theater for whatever he eventually throws our way. He's "two for two" with this series. I doubt he can f**k up the third.

And if DOES turn out to be Catwoman, give me Scarlett over Angelina. Actually, Rhona Mitra would be nice (wow, three women "known" for their lips...).
 

Edwin-S

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AFAIAC, Catwoman is guaranteed to be in the next one. The comment that Morgan Freeman made about cats in TDK was not just some one liner thrown in to create comic relief. It is a hint about who is being lined up to appear in the next film. It is exactly the same type of foreshadowing as the comments about The Joker in Batman Begins, just a lot more subtle.

Also, I don't get these comments about no more costumed villains in these movies. These are comic book movies, so why are there demands that a staple of the comics be thrown out? I am not a fan of superhero comics by any stretch of the imagination, but I would never think to demand that the movies should throw out anything that exposes the roots of their origin. It is almost as if some people here are ashamed of the comic book origins of the characters and want to see the film versions erase the "embarrassing reality" that these characters derive from some kind of "lowbrow, inferior literary form". A view that I do not happen to agree with.

IMO, costumed villains are important to these types of films, because the costumes do two things. First, they act to hide the "normal life" identities of the people who wear them and second they act to set the wearers apart from the mundane "normals" who populate the landscape.

The costume automatically tells the viewer that the wearer is different. That somehow they have abilities and talents that ordinary people lack. You might as well not bother making a superhero flick if you take the costumed villains out of movies like TDK.

Even Ledger's Joker was wearing a costume. I mean, for Pete's sake, the guy was wearing a purple suit with a loud shirt and tie.
 

cafink

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It's Nolan himself who seems to dislike the idea of the more outrageous "costumed" villains. I don't think it's just a coincidence that Batman Begins and The Dark Knight have featured only the more mundane Batman characters. I imagine that's why we've seen Ra's Al Guhl and Two-Face instead of the Penguin or Mr. Freeze. Even Nolan's Scarecrow was pretty toned-down to just a guy with a potato sack on his head. The Joker wears a loud suit, yes, but that's hardly in the same league as, say, Mr. Freeze's traditional get-up.
 

Pete-D

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Scarlett Johanson as the Catwoman ... ugh.

I really hope they don't.

If the Batman fans want a "mainline" villain then let it be the Riddler.

Let the female be Talia and get someone who's an actually solid actress like Rachel Weisz, don't turn the female lead into some walking sex fetish joke.

The other problem I have with another character wearing a full-on disquise/costume is we've already seen in Nolan's universe how hard it was for Bruce to develop his suit and all the things it can do because of his financial backing. I think it's better that Batman be the only character that has a real suit otherwise on-screen it just turns into a Halloween party.

I think this angle from the comics could be adjusted into a third Batman film:

In the years since Talia meets Batman, she is repeatedly torn between loyalty to her father and her love of Batman. However, she has proven an important 'ally' in her way; most prominently, she encourages Batman to return to Gotham City when it is declared a "No Man's Land" following an earthquake, and he has lost his fighting spirit and didn't believe he could save Gotham.

I think they could also then write a sequence in the third film where Bruce leaves Gotham for a period, maybe goes into the desert and meets Talia or something along those lines. Begins and TDK both have memorable sequences set outside of Gotham too.
 

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