The BLACK HOLE Subwoofer (1 Viewer)

[Cam S]

Geez, this topic was started ages ago!! My god though, that sub is friggin incredible. PLEASE show us the finished results of the sub and theater!!!!!!

 

[Dustin B]

Yep, it was started ages ago, and he finished them ages ago.

Here is a link to a page with lots of pictures of his system.

He has 4 of these black hole subs which will outgun a pair of Wilson Audio XS subs.

 

[Jeremy Stockwell]

Where? :frowning:

 

[DougRogers]

Here is a link to a page with lots of pictures of his system

Am I missing something or is there no link? I looked at your site and didn't see anything that resembled these beasts. I could have missed them though.

 

[Adam Butler]

Try Link Removed
Also check out his Link Removed

 

[Bill_Weinreich]

All of a sudden I feel inadequate with only 12"
Bill

 

[Jason Wilcox]

YOU feel inadequate? i could easily build an enclosure for my sub out of his ports!

 

[ChrisA]

Wow,
I was suprised that someone revived this thread, however, it is a good thread
I have to say that these subwoofers were finished 1.8 years ago, and I am extremely, 110% satisfied. Design and construction of these subs elevated me to a new height in home-theater. I would like to re-thank all of the various engineers that helped me create these cost no object DIY subwoofers.
Funny these thread should be brought up right now. I am in the process of building a full-size SUV subwoofer utilizing the new Aura NRS drivers www.aurasound.com The 15 inch versions retail for $999.00, however, I can provide people with information on how to order these 15 inch sub drivers at a cost of $600.00 plus shipping. The 18 NRS inch drivers are a little more expensive. Aura is also producing an epoxy cone version of the Aura 1808, now called the Aura 18-8. I have a rare version of the Aura 18 inch driver in the Black Hole subs which is a custom made honeycomb kevlar driver with an Fs of 15 Hz.
In any case, the Aura drivers remain my favorite drivers for subwoofers with their 4 inch underhung voice coils, and outstanding motor design with outstanding Klippel measurments and lack of power compression. Aura maintains a patent on this motor design with neodymium radial design, etc.. Aura Drivers maintan 2.5 inch p-p excursion.
I'm a bit dismayed at subwoofer drivers which seem to continue to emphasize Ultra-high excursion at the expense of higher resonant frequencies, stiffer suspensions, lower Vas.... While higher excursion capability is a benefit, the higher resonant frequencies, stiffer suspensions, lead to subwoofer drivers that roll-off at higher frequencies.
In any case, the Aura Drivers are absolutely outstanding. Check out the Aura NRS drivers at www.aurasound.com Also check out the Aura 18-8. I am also happy to announce that less expensive versions of the Aura NRS series will soon be available. I can help anybody obtain Aura drivers at outstanding prices, feel free to email me so that you can enjoy these drivers in your next DIY sub that leaves all these other subs in the dust...
Get some one inch thick baltic birch and let's start making some killer 15 and 18 inch subs...
I'm working on a Full Size SUV subwoofer right now. I'm installing a home theater in my full size SUV with a 15" ceiling mount widescreen. This new SUV sub will have one inch thick Baltic Birch and will be a 3.0 cubic feet per driver (0.577 Bessel) sealed, using two Aura NRS 15 drivers.
I would highly recommend people use the Aura NRS 18" driver in a sealed bessel aligment or a large EBS ported sub similar to the Black Hole Sub for their next DIY home theater sub...

 

[Dustin B]

Must have clicked the wrong button or something when I was adding the link. Doesn't matter now anyways, as both Adam and Chris have it in this thread now.

Have you been following the threads on Adire's latest offering Chris? It now has a name, Tumult, and we expect actual protype specs (instead of Dan's design specs) very soon. It will also be using Adire's new XBL^2 motor topology. There are several PDF files about it on Adire's website.

Here are the design specs Dan gave out.

Fs: 16 Hz

Qms: 4.15

Qes: 0.395

Qts: 0.360

Vas: 226 liters

Re: 3.14 Ohms

Le: 3.05 mH

BL: 16.16 Tm

Xmax: 36.27mm one way

Sd: 737 cm^2

SPL: 85.7 dB @ 1W, 1m

 

[Jack Gilvey]

I'm a bit dismayed at subwoofer drivers which seem to continue to emphasize Ultra-high excursion at the expense of higher resonant frequencies, stiffer suspensions, lower Vas.... While higher excursion capability is a benefit, the higher resonant frequencies, stiffer suspensions, lead to subwoofer drivers that roll-off at higher frequencies.

This has been youir opinion for a long time, and I've always agreed with it. A small box isn't everything.

 

[ChrisA]

I happened to notice that thread... Can't say I'm enthusiatic about it at all. Still too ordinary goals. I guess I'm going to have to pay for a run of drivers that will satisfy me and those other people who are willing to pay a little more for more performance.

I'm certainly looking for a driver which requires less agressive LT/EQ, much larger Vas, Lower Fs (around 14 Hz), Qts around 0.45-0.5 . The driver being discussed is being optimized for a small enclosure... just another driver to please the majority and will still be too ordinary. We need a driver that is designed for very large enclosures and IB... NO DRIVER EXISTS FOR SUCH A DESIGN AND THAT ALONE WOULD MAKE SUCH A DRIVER A SUCCESSFUL NICHE DRIVER. If it cannot be done this year, I will help fund such a driver project in the near future.

 

[Dustin B]

Well Dan has mentioned he plans on releasing a second version of the Tumult that will be more optimized for IB/Dipole use. Earlier in the perfect sub driver thread he also gave some specs for an 18" driver similar to the Tumult, but better suited for IB/Dipole use.

 

[Dennis XYZ]

Huh? What's not to like about the Tumult for an IB? It looks ideal. IBs need low Fs, high Vd and low distortion. Everything else is pretty irrelevant. The Tumult motor promises lower distortion than anything currently available. The low Q is no problem. Any sub is going to need some EQ to deal with room modes so you just set the final Q with the EQ. The Peerless Linkwitz uses in his dipoles has a Q of .2 and he never considered it a design problem because he knew he would be EQing it.

 

[Greg Monfort]

>....much larger Vas, Lower Fs (around 14 Hz), Qts around 4.5-5.0
====
Yeah, let's have a bit of efficiency with our low Fs!
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>Everything else is pretty irrelevant.
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Oh really?! Play with Vas to see how it affects efficiency. As for LRTs, they're fine for some apps, but when it comes to heart attack performance, give me efficiency and critically damped in-room response with minimal electronics any day....
GM

 

[ChrisA]

IBs need low Fs, high Vd and low distortion. Everything else is pretty irrelevant

I take reasonably low distortion and relatively high displacement for granted for any decent sub driver in this day and age
However, the big three primary priorities remain:
* Very large Vas (as large as possible)
* Lower Fs (around 14 Hz, meaning 13-14 Hz *not* higher))
* Qts that lies with the range of 0.45-0.5

 

[Jack Gilvey]

Chris, I like your "no-holes-barred" approach, but I think there's truly no market for quantities of such a beast. If you happen to get a run going, though...give me a nod.

 

[Dennis XYZ]

* Qts that lies with the range of 4.5-5.0

Again, huh? That would ring like crazy. Are you perhaps referring to Qms?

Efficiency? An amp that will put 200 watts into an 8 ohm load will drive a Tumult to Xmax at 15 Hz. I could live with that.

Personally, I don't see the point in getting all worked up over the "perfect" IB driver. Just use multiple cheap drivers. Several drivers moving a little bit will usually have less non-linear distortion than one driver moving a whole bunch. Right now the Tempest or the Dayton 15" look like the cubic inch per dollar leaders. Just load enough of them onto your baffle so they never move more than +/- 1/2 inch and you will have ultra clean bass. With the room gain in most room, very little eq will be required other than for room modes. I'm sure 10 or 20 Tempests in an IB would have no problem running for pinks against your Black Holes and would cost less too. :wink:

 

[ChrisA]

Right now the Tempest or the Dayton 15" look like the cubic inch per dollar leaders. Just load enough of them onto your baffle so they never move more than +/- 1/2 inch and you will have ultra clean bass. With the room gain in most room, very little eq will be required other than for room modes.

1) I'm sorry, you are not helpful to what I am discussing.
2) Your missing my goals and points of my discussion.

 

[ChrisA]

Chris, I like your "no-holes-barred" approach, but I think there's truly no market for quantities of such a beast. If you happen to get a run going, though...give me a nod.

I certainly will!

 

[Dennis XYZ]

Chris, sorry if I came off as antagonistic. I didn't mean to.
Qts - check your numbers in your earlier postings. You were saying 4.5 to 5. Later you said .45 to .5 which is about right. PS - with the dual voice coils of the Adire and Dayton drivers, you can use a resistor across one of them to set Qtc of an IB anywere between Qts and 2*Qts.
Room for the drivers - not a problem for me but not everyone could make it work. I'm running stereo line arrays of 6 Peerless 12" each, 12 drivers total. The backwave goes into the garage. I could easily add more lines beside the ones I have but my picture window can't handle full volume now so I don't see the need. The biggest hassle with big IBs is moving them to a new location. I'm planning that now. The actual speakers are easy to move - just an 18" wide baffle with 6 drivers in a line. Two people can easily carry it. I'm still working on the logistics of installing them in the new house so they have adequate volume behind them.