The beginning of the end for classic shows? (1 Viewer)

[Gary OS]

Oh no! Not Daniel Boone, please! That's too good of a classic to skip, Dave.

Gary "just kidding with you Dave, although I did buy it and am very, very happy I did" O.

 

[Dave Scarpa]

I only have vague memories and then of the color shows. At $40 a pop rather rent at this point but I am enjoying them.

 

[Scott_F_S]

I'm really amazed at all the people who throw this out there like they know there's some sort of magic marketing elixir that would all of a sudden make these things fly off the shelf where they never have before.

Exactly what stroke of marketing genius do you think needs to happen to all of a sudden make these corporate paupers rich?

 

[Sky King]

For me there is nothing more frustrating than to see newer and in my opinion, crappier shows rushed to DVD, leaving the older classic shows "on the shelf to collect dust."
When are the studios going to realize that many babyboomers would prefer to see a classic DVD set of "Ben Casey" over "The Apprentice ?"

 

[Scott_F_S]

Why would you say they don't realize that? I'm sure there is no question among the studios that that is the case.

The larger issue here is whether there are enough babyboomers who would buy a set of "Ben Casey" to make it profitable enough for them to produce it. I would seriously doubt that. Just because a few posters on an Internet forum say they want this stuff doesn't mean there's a viable market out there.

 

[Sky King]

Scott,

I was just using "Ben Casey" as an example of much better programming that should be made available on DVD.
"Ben Casey" just came to mind first, because of it's superior writing.

John

 

[Scott_F_S]

I'm not focused on Ben Casey, either, just on this discussion in general.

My point is that I don't think posters in these kinds of threads get it that the reason a lot of classic TV shows aren't being released is probably because the studios don't see much profit potential in them. The fact that they're "collecting dust on a shelf" has nothing to do with studio ogres ignoring them or not caring about them or not marketing them correctly or anything like that.

It's all about the bottom line. If someone at one of the studios thought there would be good profit potential in Ben Casey or Have Gun Will Travel or any of these shows that have been mentioned, they would be released.

 

[Bob Hug]

Paramount must have seen good profit potential in "Have Gun Will Travel" 'cause they've released three seasons to date.

 

[lovethoseshows]

i know right???they dont make em like they used to fro sure!!just saw a clip of that old show match game??on itunes, it was so cool, everyones just kind of ugly and 70's and real!! love it

 

[Gary OS]

Scott, I'm tempted to ask you how old you are and what kind of dvds you personally are in the habit of buying, simply because "I think thou protestest too much." While I have little doubt that current teen soaps sell better than older classics (for numerous reasons, none of which have anything to do with the quality of the writing or merit of the show itself) I don't think there's any doubt classics can make a profit. As I mentioned earlier, are we to believe that Paramount lost money on the ILL or TAGS series? Or that Image lost money on the DVDS or COMBAT series? I'd be shocked if that was the case.

What many of us are saying is that the companies don't market these shows well and that, YES, there are people in positions of power that just flat out don't realize these shows can be profitable. Either that or they don't really care because it's so much easier to package the current stuff. I've heard enough stories about certain shows having "advocates" within companies that I know it makes a difference. I'm not suggesting that the execs just sit around and say, "Hey I liked such and such as a kid so let's release it." But on the other hand it doesn't hurt to have people within these companies that have personal knowledge of the older classics in their respective library vaults.

Gary "I'm not trying to call you out personally, Scott, but you do seem to have a slant that's willing to let the classics rot without a whimper by just saying, 'they won't sell' " O.

 

[Doug^Ch]

I buy a lot and I mean a lot of TV on DVD. I buy almost everything, because I am a collector nut. I buy everything from Mr. Peepers and Sergeant Preston to Buffy and 24. I buy westerns, adventure, soaps, sit coms, horror, science fiction and even go as far as buying an occasional reality show like The Dog Whisperer. While I buy everything, I have to for the most part back up what Scott is trying to say. If there were significant amounts of money to be made on these older classic shows, the studios would be chomping at the bit to release them. You have to remember that the members of this forum are not typical consumers of dvd product. Relatively speaking across the country there are many aging baby boomers who do fondly remember shows like Ben Casey and say Burke's Law, but are they consumers of dvds? For the most part no. You cannot use this forum as a barometer of consumer taste; it simply is not typical.

It is also faulty to use shows like I Love Lucy, The Dick Van Dyke Show and TAGS as indicators that all old classics sell well enough to make a good profit. These shows were among the most heavily syndicated and best remembered shows of all time. Even most 20 somethings have heard of them, and, or seen them on TVLand or Nick at Night. I can tell you right now that you would have to hunt pretty hard to find a teen or twenty something in this country (outside of this forum) that even knows that the movie The Fugitive was based on a 1960's TV show. Even if they did, the likelihood that they would buy that B&W series is low.

There is a reason why most advertisers in this country don't give a #*!**# about the over 50 demographic, while they have the money, they don't spend the money. Networks which have TV shows with more total viewers have to charge less for commercial time if those viewers are in that older demographic. The same thing holds true for the movies, why do movies like Jackass 2 go to number one and make all the money, while a wonderful film like Cinderella Man loses money. Sure the older people remember the TV shows that we want on dvd, but they don't buy in numbers large enough to justify it to a major studio. Our only hope is that the big studios will some day be willing to license these older properties to small independent production companies at a reasonable fee.

 

[Sky King]

Scott,

Maybe some of the companies holding the rights to these classic TV shows could sell "test DVDs" to determine what interest if any, a given show may have with the general public. These DVDs would be a no frills effort and contain several episodes of the TV show to be tested and sell in the $10.00 to $15.00 range at DVD retailers.
I believe something similar to this was done within the past year with a classic western TV series...possibly "Cheyenne ?"


John

 

[Gary OS]

Doug, I'm not suggesting that every older show can be compared to ILL, TAGS, or TDVDS. I'm well aware of the reasons these shows would immediately have a better draw than others. I understand that many 50's and 60's series would be stretches for the studios. But there are still some older shows that fall into the "can't miss" category, such as THE FUGITIVE. Those are the shows I'm mainly arguing for.

I realize that there will never be an "even" exchange, where older but lesser known series like, for instance, HONEY WEST will get the same shot at a release as the ever popular and so deserving of a release STACKED gets. :rolleyes

We all know that just about anything current is going to get a release, and that the same ratio can't be expected for older series. So please don't misinterpret my comments. I'm wistful, but not stupid. It's also very clear to me that a forum like this doesn't represent the common buying market and that the all-mighty dollar is the bottom line. But I also know that having advocates in key locations can make a difference. That's what I'd like to see happen a little more.

Gary "it's still hard for me to believe Paramount hasn't released THE FUGITIVE" O.

 

[Bob Hug]

John, you're correct about "Cheyenne." Warner released a number of titles, ranging from the 1950s through 1990s, under the "Television Favorites" banner and included six episodes for half hour shows and three episodes for hour long shows. To date, "Cheyenne" and "F-Troop" have received season 1 releases as a result of this "test." Unfortunately, to date, another western vintage classic, "Maverick," has not made the cut.

 

[Doug^Ch]

Gary, I fervently hope that you get your wish that they do release The Fugitive on DVD. There are already many advocates for the show including Entertainment Weekly. A few weeks ago they had a small column devoted to the show - asking where is it, why has it not made an appearance on DVD. They are a big advocate, because millions of people read that publication. I am really looking forward to its release as well, because I've heard so much about the show, but have never seen it.

 

[marcSo]

Say it isn't so for the older classics.I have been watching the 1st season of hazel and love this show.I'm hoping sony does the right thing and releases season 2.At least we have the lucy desi comedy hour. Gomer Pyle and seasons 5 and 6 of the Adventures of Superman to look forward too. I am going to think positive and believe we will have some other classics to look forward too.as well

 

[Scott_F_S]

Gary: You can ask. But I said it earlier in this thread. If I'm not the older poster on this forum, I promise you I'm in the top five or 10. I'm old enough to remember watching My Mother The Car and Mr. Ed, etc., in first run.

I can tell you for a fact that people in my age group do not buy TV DVD sets in significant numbers. They buy college tuition for their kids, they buy multiple cell phones for their family, they buy new furniture, they remodel their kitchens and they buy an occasional movie for $10 or $15. I personally do not know one Baby Boomer other than myself who has ever bought a TV on DVD set -- not even Dick Van Dyke or I Love Lucy or the other mega-classics that have been mentioned.

I'm a rare bird in my age group as far as our little corner of the world goes. I do purchase a few TV on DVD sets. Not a lot compared to most people on this forum but enough that I always have something new to watch when I'm in the mood. And none of them are the classics.

I buy the Buffys and the Angels and the Sopranos and the Shields and the Nip/Tucks. I have no interest in buying classic shows. I blind-buy current or recent stuff because I never sit down to watch broadcast TV other than sports on occasion. And I like to spend my spare time seeing something fresh and exciting instead of the same old stuff that has been around for years.

I'm not anti-classic TV, and I'm not trying to rain on your parade. Not at all. I wish you and everyone else on this forum could get there hands on this stuff that you want. I'm just living in the real world here when I say that there aren't enough people who would buy these things to make it a worthwhile endeavor for the studios to release product. I don't care how many people they have on staff who care or do not care about classic TV. It ain't gonna sell.

Sure, some of these old shows would be right up the alley of a handful of small, boutique DVD companies if they could license stuff from the big studios who own it. But you're assuming that it's the studios who won't license the stuff out. It very well could be that the boutiques can only pick and choose a few titles here and there that would be sure to be a home run for them.

The big studios aren't going to release the stuff because it isn't worth their time and effort. The boutiques aren't going to release most of them because they can't afford to gamble on just any thing that one or two Internet posters have said they wanted.

That's all I'm saying.

 

[michael_ks]

You're oversimplyfing things somewhat. When you consider the the publication of nostalgia price guide books and companion books to classic shows, to say nothing of the fact that novelty items and toys for shows 40 years old or more are more ubiquitous than ever, e.g. "The Thunderbirds", one can plainly see that 50s-60's era tv nostalgia is not dead.

Studios have been releasing classic tv on dvd for nearly 10 years, so they've had plenty of time to discover if customers in significant numbers would purchase something like "The Time Tunnel". Many of these sets, be it "Rawhide", Daniel Boone", Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" often break the top 100 for sales on Amazon. Look at all the websites devoted to classic tv shows--routinely, I'll come across one where the webmaster attests to the huge response to fans from all over the globe. Another example--there were over 2000 signatories to a petition on nightgallery.net to implore Universal to release the second season of that show. That's just the individuals who made the effort to sign the petition, but doubtless there are many more fans who wish to see the series completed on DVD who didn't know about the petition.

There's actually been a significant number of classic shows released on DVD, and in fact my collection (approximately 30 tv series represented) is comprised solely of shows made between 1951-1974. If I had everything that's been released covering the golden & silver age it wouldn't fit on my 8ft tall book rack.

 

[Mark Lx]

But is there any place on the planet you can't rent these shows. Seems that would cover your desire to watch something "fresh and exciting". Although for my money, something that's recently been all over the television is hardly fresh.

 

[Scott_F_S]

OK, so let's go back to the question suggested by the OP. Why do you think there is such a drastic slowdown in release schedules this year?

I would contend it's because the studios have discovered that they don't sell well enough to justify releasing everything in sight.

I've made my point: There is not a significant market for classic TV on DVD, and the studios have learned that. It has nothing to do with the quality of Ben Casey vs. the quality of the Apprentice. It has everything to do with the fact that they'll sell 10 or so copies of the Apprentice for everyone one Ben Casey at much less the cost.