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Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Van Ling, Jul 24, 2008.
Hum... okay, thanks for the info!
1. Stan Winston's conception/design details to actual production of the T-101
2. A nice booklet with a SPECIAL metal endoskelton head with red eyes (key ring) tucked inside.
T2 is already in 5.1, yes, but Lionsgate has been doing everything in 7.1 on Blu-ray these days. I'd still want the original mix.
That doesn't make the original mix any less redundant though.
An original sound mix is never redundant. It's the remix that should be playing second fiddle. In my opinion of course (and I don't believe I'm alone). Just like a colorized film doesn't make the old black and white one redundant.
Then tell me, what's the difference between altering an old movie and altering an old painting? Why do old movies need a constant update (and constant it needs to be, since vfx technology is always improving)? Why altering and faking historical works of art?
And most important: why do you watch (and hopefully like) The Terminator in the first place?
You can only disagree with my opinion if you have an opinion yourself about those issues.
Y'know, I did a presentation in earlier this year about the Ethics of VFX Manipulation... and I covered the very topic of making alterations to works of art based on "changing creative visions". Needless to say, my examples included the SW Trilogy, Star Trek, E.T. and Raiders of the Lost Ark... I also covered such things as digital botox, product placement via VFX, and dead celebrity endorsements like Fred Astaire and the Dirt Devil vacuum cleaner commercials. This is an especialy hot topic nowadays since the advent of formats like BD are giving studios a reason to revisit doing restorations and such... while you're removing dirt, it becomes a slippery slope where you end up removing matte lines, and then offensive characters (Song of the South, anyone?) and then you start tweaking actors' performances (raise an eyebrow, add a tear)... So where do we draw the line, and can we draw it using Photoshop?
I think the South Park 6th season episode "Free Hat" said it best... check it out at South Park Studios
That's a great that episode. I always picture someone robbing a bank with a walkie talkie.
I think replacing with CGI is awful, but digital compositing can really help some movies that lost a lot of detail with optical effects. It usually sticks out like a sore thumb. A great example is that scene in "The Goonies" where the main character is looking through an amulet and matching the islands with the holes looks like some of my old 8mm home movies. They just have to know their limits with revisions.
Not to be a smarta** or anything; but, if I am going to have to start double-dipping on BD's now, I would like to see included a rebate coupon to get something back for what I have invested in the original BD's. Why couldn't we get them done right on the first go-around? (Please do not take that personally, Mr. Ling.)
I suppose by asking, though, you are essentially saying that these are going to be redone?
You've asked the million-dollar question, Jeff... why don't we get it right the first time around? That answer to that is somewhat complicated in that no one I've dealt with in the studios system really sets out to double-dip anybody; it's a function of new technology, legal issues, marketing opportunities and ongoing revenue streams.
The initial issue is technology: so the BD format comes out, it's barely functional because it was rushed out to compete with HD-DVD, which was nearly a year farther along, and there has to be someone putting out discs for it. The first titles to go out are ones they think they can sell because it should show off the format in terms of picture and audio quality. In the beginning, that's literally all they had to sell BD with, because virtually no other BD feature worked in Profile 1.0! So those of us trying to work with the format in its infancy had to really simplify what we wanted to do, because no players could handle the promised functionality. Now the format has matured a bit in terms of players working, so we can do more. The alternative was to not release anything at all until the format worked better, and miss out on a marketing opportunity to show that the studios are committing to the format. If that sounds like double-dipping, it certainly isn't meant to be... pretty much every review of the early discs --and especially for T2-- noted that there was obviously going to be a future BD version with all of the good stuff from the DVDs on it. It's kind of like buying encyclopedias (for those of you old enough to remember those actual book things prior to Wikipedia!)... do you buy this year's set and have something you can use right now, or do you wait until next year for the updated and revised version? With the latter mentality, you can end up waiting forever and not getting anything.
As for getting it right, the legal issues involved with putting out a disc are legion, and most studios have a threshold for how much they are willing to pay in licensing costs and troubles for any given thing that can be put on a disc. For example, a crew video might exist, but you have to get signed waivers from every person visible in it in order to cover the studio in case someone does not like being shown in it. The Guns N Roses music video for T2 made it onto the laserdisc in 1993 but NOT on any subsequent DVD because the fees from the band and record label are incredibly steep (over $125,000 nearly ten years ago)... the only reason we got it onto the laserdisc version is that the licensing fee was a lot cheaper because the LD sales were literally only in the tens of thousands at the most. Since DVDs replaced VHS as the format of choice, the market is way bigger (in the tens of millions of discs sold), so they charge higher fees. And the legal rule of thumb is, if there's ANY potential rights issue, they drop it.
I can go into the sordid business/marketing aspect in a future post... but in terms of these two titles, it is a certainty that they WILL be redone on BD at some point, since their initial BD releases were somewhat plain and incomplete (at least in terms of what I did for them on DVD). Personally, I am just trying to get a sense from you folks what you think, because I want to see ALL my previous efforts in creating special features make it to the new format. Nothing has been committed to by either studio yet on these titles... I'm just hoping to get a chance to do them when they do happen.
Thanks, as always for your answer. Your reasoning is great.
I am all for additional features as long as the audio and video for the feature presentation is pumped-out at the best possible quality, even if it means a second disc for the supplemental stuff.
For the Terminator 25th Anniversary Editionon Blu-ray I would prefer to see:
*Dolby 2.0 mono
*Uncompressed PCM 5.1
*Dolby True HD 5.1
Audio commentary by James Cameron and others... (Arnie maybe?)
Original theatrical trailers and tv spots
And I would like to see Terminator 2 with a top notch video transfer and a lossless audio track as well.
*Uncompressed PCM 5.1
*DTS-HD Master Audio 6.1 or 7.1
It would also be nice to see T3 with a lossless audio track instead of a lossy Dolby Digital track.
with the release of T4 next summer, I would think the studios would think about re-releasing T1, T2, and T3 on bluray.. they seem to like it do it then.
I'd like to see a trailer for DTS-MA and Dolby True HD on the disc. Why don't studios do this anymore?
Hey Van, before I give my suggestion I just wanted to say that I signed up here for the sole reason of being able to chime in on a future release of a T2 and to be able to exchange words with you. I’m a huge Jim Cameron fan and a great admirer of your special editions and the care and craftsmanship you put into them. I still have what I consider the father of all special edition’s, the 1993 T2 Special Edition 3 disc laserdisc set which I still have proudly displayed in my office.
The one thing I always wished and would love to see on a future release of T2 would be an isolated music track, just the score and nothing else playing in real time with the film. I love the score to T2 and I always here music cues on T2 related documentary’s such as the “No Feat But What We Make” documentary from the Extreme DVD, that were never included on the official CD soundtrack. But like I said It’s always been my wish to have an Isolated music track for T2. Is their any possible chance something like this can even be considered?
The only other thing I would love to see included would be TV spots, and possibly a categorized photo gallery as seen on your T1 Special Edition DVD. I know their was several photo’s on the Extreme DVD but they were part of the interactive mode with graphic commentary and you couldn’t actually browse through them at your convenience like on the T1 DVD.
Anyhow I really hope an isolated music track could be considered.
Jakub: one of the reasons you don't often see (and by "see" I mean "hear"!) isolated music tracks on DVDs or BDs is because the actual musical pieces are often heavily edited to best match picture, and then are faded, cut off, dipped and raised in volume to work in concert with the dialogue and sound effects... therefore, the musical experience alone is constantly interrupted by these machinations. And if the score contains snippets or whole sections of "source" music (meaning actual songs heard in the scene itself, like "Bad to the Bone" or Guns N Roses on a tinny Walkman), then isolating the track often means paying NEW licensing fees and royalties for that use, which really adds up. There are also rights issues involved with the composer or studio, since they may retain the right to separately license or do a soundtrack album, which would be "adversely impacted" by including essentially the same thing for free on the DVD/BD. This reason is why most games on DVDs/BDs may suck, because if they make them too cool and actually videogame-like, they infringe upon the rights paid for by actual game licensees.
All that being said, I can look into the possibility but it likely can't happen without a LOT of additional cost.
Also, note that we actually had a musician named David Haas write some new music specifically for the "No Feat" doc on T2 Extreme when we had no Brad Fiedel T2 score music that fit the mood of what we wanted to convey... just three cues out of eighteen. And I actually have been looking for the original TV spots... ;-)
Hope this helps,
Completely understandable, although I don’t care much for the actual songs, I’m interested in the score. Perhaps if not a full isolated track to the movie how about a few select scenes with isolated score, the music cues I would love to here are as follows,
-The Terminator walking through the Galleria
-The Canal Chase
-The Police arriving at Cyberdyne Systems
Or even just have those cues available to listen as a special feature against nothing but black. I always wanted here those cues clean. Anyhow I’m fully aware I’m venturing into abstract wishful thinking at this point.
Thanks for the feedback and I really look forward to seeing what turns up with this project. Is their any chance we’ll be seeing a production diary such as you did for Abyss and T2 Ultimate?
A production diary is doubtful, and probably not that interesting, to be honest... and it's hard to write a journal while in the trenches with bullets whizzing by! ;-)
Don't know what the legal issues are regarding the score, but I can look into it. If nothing else, I feel there should be a full score CD made available for this film... but that's up to powers greater than me...
A new long documentary about the production of the T2 will be great. something like the ones on The Fly or The Blade Runner BR discs.