TEMPEST IN A TEAPOT OR TITUS (1 Viewer)

[Winston T. Boogie]

Ha...oops...I gave myself away!

 

[bgart13]

Heh, that's ok. If I bought a case of my favorite beer brand - Samuel Smith - it'd be about $60.

 

[ROclockCK]

By reading these discussions (and some comments from TT) I actually believe that some of you kinda like the idea where BD collecting becomes a "elitist" hobby. Expensive, limited edition releases where the A/V quality is back on the spotlight. No more useless extras or "junk". Just a classic film and a class of good wine. You've a "beer budget"? Go buy Death Wish 5 and a case of Pabst Blue Ribbon.

Nope. I just want this format to be healthy enough for catalogue producers...offering reasonable rewards for everyone's investment and hard work throughout the chain...so they will have some incentive to deliver even more great stuff.

I'd turn this question around: "Why are you encouraging video labels to further embrace this now grossly-lopsided, race to the bottom sales environment where [sic] 'smart shoppers' no longer have to wait months or weeks for a desired title to become deeply discounted...within mere days or hours of release, it is already at those loss-leading blowout bin levels?" Where does this insanity end...blowout pricing when the title is announced?

So what is "elitist" about supporting a more rational and sustainable model with something in it for everyone involved - not just the buyer, but also the studio and vendor?

 

[bgart13]

To show I'm not such a TT Scrooge, I just bought MAN IN THE DARK. However, it was from eBay and comes with the DIAL M FOR MURDER bd too.

 

[bluelaughaminute]

I'm pretty sure that John was making a joke.

Oops . I spotted the "wink" so I think you're right so I withdraw my earlier comment .

To show I'm not such a TT Scrooge, I just bought MAN IN THE DARK. However, it was from eBay and comes with the DIAL M FOR MURDER bd too.

How much for ?
I was looking for a UK source for Man In the Dark but couldn't find one .
Dial M For Murder is often available for under £4 when the boxset it was also part of drops to around £11.

 

[Mark Cappelletty]

I scanned through my copy last night and thought it looked good, but not great, with some scenes -- particularly the fantasy bits (and especially the MATRIX-like freeze-frame at the end) -- coming off as dingy and almost pixilated, with an almost artificial digital nature to the opticals, even though the film was shot 35mm. That being said, I'm a fan of the film -- I saw it at the NuWilshire in early 2000 -- and jumped at this title, which, if it weren't for Nick Redman and the Twilight Time crew, wouldn't have been released in the first place. It's an older master and it's not perfect, but is better than the DVD and the 5.1 soundtrack sounds great. I don't love the cover design, but hey, you can't win 'em all.

What gets me is the constant whining. If you don't like Twilight Time's business model, then by all means, DON'T BUY FROM THEM. My limited dealings with Nick have shown him to be a gentleman and one who's devoted to making Twilight Time work. Do I wish the titles were cheaper? Sure. Does the 3,000-copy limit aggravate me occasionally (such as when SAE's website crashes)? Yep. But, as someone who scrimped and saved to buy laserdiscs back when he was a poor-ass grad student, I'm wiling to put up with the limitations to get quality product put out by people who care about what they're doing. If you want cheap titles thrown together seemingly at random, by all means enjoy the Mill Creek/Echo Bridge bargain packs.

 

[bgart13]

You mean like Mill Creek's excellent double feature of MR. SARDONICUS and BROTHERHOOD OF SATAN? Okedoke!Re: my purchase... 44.99 for the two titles. I've thought about that UK Hitchcock set before but never pulled the trigger.Re: the constant whining? I'd say it's about 50/50 to the constant songs of TT praise. Half love 'em, half don't. Such is life.

 

[ahollis]

Yes the passion of the people at Twilight is very evident on each release. Their love for movies is greater than mine though my family and friends might try to argue that point.

 

[JohnMor]

You mean like Mill Creek's excellent double feature of MR. SARDONICUS and BROTHERHOOD OF SATAN? Okedoke!Re: my purchase... 44.99 for the two titles. I've thought about that UK Hitchcock set before but never pulled the trigger.Re: the constant whining? I'd say it's about 50/50 to the constant songs of TT praise. Half love 'em, half don't. Such is life.

Yes, but the difference is, the people who sing the praises actually BUY the discs. Many (or most) who whine, do not buy the discs. You'd think they just ignore it, but they don't. It's like people who complain about a TV show they never watch. I don't understand why they care.

 

[English Patient]

What gets me is the constant whining. If you don't like Twilight Time's business model, then by all means, DON'T BUY FROM THEM. My limited dealings with Nick have shown him to be a gentleman and one who's devoted to making Twilight Time work. Do I wish the titles were cheaper? Sure. Does the 3,000-copy limit aggravate me occasionally (such as when SAE's website crashes)? Yep. But, as someone who scrimped and saved to buy laserdiscs back when he was a poor-ass grad student, I'm wiling to put up with the limitations to get quality product put out by people who care about what they're doing. If you want cheap titles thrown together seemingly at random, by all means enjoy the Mill Creek/Echo Bridge bargain packs.

Couldn't have said it better myself. If Titus is any indication, I think this is pretty much what the future holds for other relatively obscure but quality catalog titles that did little at the box office - getting released at a somewhat premium price by a niche label using an old, unrestored, imperfect transfer. Sort of like in the early days of DVD, before the concept of restoring/remastering transfers became commonplace (like that very first nonanamorphic DVD of Blade Runner). The film's studio is more than likely not going to bother investing in a new transfer or restoration, and the niche label is not going to have the deep pockets or the technical expertise to do a new transfer. So we'll have to make do with what we get and scale down our expectations. Which I will happily do if it means obscure catalog titles have a future on blu-ray. I've read the interviews with Nick Redman and what he says about the catalog side of home video is pretty sobering - it doesn't sound at all like anyone is getting rich doing catalog titles anymore.

I really think a lot of people have gotten a distorted view of the situation - they buy a 3-disc special edition of Avatar or some other blockbuster at $15 and just assume every blu-ray title is going to have that kind of treatment.

 

[Mark Cappelletty]

I actually own two Mill Creek double-packs -- the aforementioned MR. SARDONICUS/BROTHERHOOD OF SATAN and HUDSON HAWK/HOLLYWOOD HOMICIDE (yes, I got it for HUDSON HAWK, which is a guilty pleasure). They're both pretty good, but don't make any sense as double-bills and don't contain any extras, not even the ones from the previous DVDs. I heard enough horrible things about the video quality of THE SQUID AND THE WHALE Blu from them that I've never bothered to pick it up. Echo Bridge is the worst offender-- they constantly screw up all of their titles one way or another, such as lopping off the 5.1 soundtrack on the underrated BELOW and messing up the color timing on David Cronenberg's EXISTENZ. If you were a lower-rent Miramax or Dimension title, you're destined to be stuck in Echo Bridge Hell. Yeah, the discs are cheap. But yeah, they kinda suck.

 

[Jari K]

"But, as someone who scrimped and saved to buy laserdiscs back when he was a poor-ass grad student, I'm wiling to put up with the limitations to get quality product put out by people who care about what they're doing."Oh, the good old laserdisc times, poor students and all. And how does this affect on the BD business today? It's great to reminisce, but it's 2014 guys.And if it's not TT, it's got to be Mill Creek or Echo Bridge? Oh well.

 

[Persianimmortal]

"But, as someone who scrimped and saved to buy laserdiscs back when he was a poor-ass grad student, I'm wiling to put up with the limitations to get quality product put out by people who care about what they're doing."Oh, the good old laserdisc times, poor students and all. And how does this affect on the BD business today? It's great to reminisce, but it's 2014 guys.And if it's not TT, it's got to be Mill Creek or Echo Bridge? Oh well.

I think the point Mark makes with regards to poor students and Laserdiscs is quite clear. If you really want a movie, especially a niche title released on a niche format by a decent company, you'll find the money to buy it, instead of demanding that all Blu-rays reach some unrealistically low price point that you have arbitrarily set for yourself.As Steve says, it's about returning some sustainability to the market. That's what it has to do with BDs. You're right, it's 2014, and unlike the Laserdisc days where we were about to head to the bright future for catalog titles that DVD promised, and fulfilled to a large extent, we're now on the downslope of the post-DVD death-of-physical-media era, where the catalog market is obviously much more fragile, and needs a better mindset from movie fans than "I'll buy it when it hits $5".

 

[Jari K]

...instead of demanding that all Blu-rays reach some unrealistically low price point that you have arbitrarily set for yourself.
...and needs a better mindset from movie fans than "I'll buy it when it hits $5".

You keep inventing these arguments to shoot down, don't you? Did someone say "5$"?

Let's say that TT releases would cost 20-25$ MSRP (perhaps depending on the release, extras, features, etc) and they would be available in Amazon.com etc. Now Amazon probably would sell them in 17-22$ (ballpark figure) and there would be some occasional sales - like Amazon and others are doing with e.g. Criterion titles.

This is "unrealistic" to you?

TT should:
a) Lower the prices.
b) Sell their releases in a places like Amazon.com.
+ c) Perhaps make another batch of the titles that are selling out. Since there's some, you know, demand.

No action figures, no steelbooks, no "Mill Creek or Echo Bridge", no "5$ titles". Just some adjusting to the business model.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

That's not "some adjusting", that's a completely different business model. Considering what Amazon pays as a wholesale price, TT would earn only 45% of what they do now by direct selling. And they would certainly not increase sales by a commensurate amount. And they would have to deal with Amazon returning 50% of their order, and taking 120 days to pay, and deducting advertising and other fees from their payment. I work for a company that sells to Amazon - it ain't pretty.

 

[Alan Tully]

I wonder just how small the market really is for older movies? It can't be huge, or what were Sony doing giving Oliver! to TT. I'm familiar with their business model as I've been buying soundtrack CD's from SAE for the past fifteen years (& also some very good titles from Hainshisway). The price is not a problem, as there's not many of their releases that I've wanted, & I buy a lot of Blu's quite cheaply, so it evens itself out. I don't fancy anything released so far this year, but with Fox & Sony & (esp.) United Artists, I hope there's a few must have titles released soon....& well done to TT for keeping their releases region free.

 

[JohnMor]

TT should:
a) Lower the prices.
b) Sell their releases in a places like Amazon.com.
+ c) Perhaps make another batch of the titles that are selling out. Since there's some, you know, demand.

Why? Are they unhappy with their current success?

 

[bruceames]

Yes, but the difference is, the people who sing the praises actually BUY the discs. Many (or most) who whine, do not buy the discs. You'd think they just ignore it, but they don't. It's like people who complain about a TV show they never watch. I don't understand why they care.

I care because for every movie that TT gets, it's another movie that's not going to get released at a reasonable price point. There are very few movies that I would pay $35 for (that's with shipping), but many more that I would pay $20 for. There are thousands of movies out on Blu-ray and many many of them are great movies. I can't own all that I want, so the ones that get bought are those which represent a good value proposition, relatively speaking. For example, Criterion usually has better movies and I can pick those up on sale for $20.

From reading posts from TT fans, I get the feeling that they buy many of their titles just because they know that the price will never depreciate or will never be on sale, because TT controls the price point through exclusive sales on their web site. They probably hope they sell out and become collectors items. I'm sure that "limited to 3000" sells quite a few copies alone.

They have yet to release a movie that I think is worth $35. If they do, then I'll probably buy it. But it hasn't happened yet. I just wish the movies they get would go to anybody else instead, because they do have movies that I would pay a reasonable price for But oh well, better just to pretend they don't exist, since there's so much out there that beckons and tempts me that I don't need any more temptation, lol.

 

[JohnMor]

I care because for every movie that TT gets, it's another movie that's not going to get released at a reasonable price point.
...
Criterion usually has better movies and I can pick those up on sale for $20.

How so? If the studios saw these as viable releases on their own, they would have released them instead of licensing them out to TT. Or they'll release them once the 3-year deal with TT is done.

And, again, what's reasonable to you is not the same for everybody. To some of us, it's more reasonable to have the film released at all, than abandoned by a studio that won't release it on its own.

As far as Criterion, they have been in business 30 years. Once TT reaches that same level of success and saturation, I'm sure they'll offer lower prices and/or BOGO's and 50% sales and whatnot. Criterion didn't do that at this stage of their development either.

 

[JohnMor]

From reading posts from TT fans, I get the feeling that they buy many of their titles just because they know that the price will never depreciate or will never be on sale, because TT controls the price point through exclusive sales on their web site. They probably hope they sell out and become collectors items. I'm sure that "limited to 3000" sells quite a few copies alone.

No, I would venture to say that most, if not all, are just like me: they buy them because they want that film on blu-ray. We love the particular film; collectability has nothing to do with it.