TCFHE Press Release: The Man With No Name Trilogy (Blu-ray) (Re-Release) (1 Viewer)

[Alan Tully]

Watched the new BD of TGTBATU last night, colours as we know are drastically different to previous home video releases.

...& drastically different to previous theatrical releases as well.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Watched the new BD of TGTBATU last night, colours as we know are drastically different to previous home video releases. The detail of the image was quite breathtaking in places.

Disappointed to find that it was the extended version, with no sign of the US theatrical cut. Also the mono track is nothing more than a folded down version of the surround mix, quite odd!

I hope that one day Criterion get hold of this film.

Like I said, it is because they're too lazy. That would have required dragging the standard 161-minute version on there, which they are too lazy to do. That, and the extra scenes had previously only existed in Italian.

There is also no way they could use a combination of the original mono for the pre-existing scenes, switch to the newer mix for the extra scenes, and back again.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

So....

At this point...

If I really want the best version of this film on Blu-ray, the Italian release
is the way to go?

Hate to ask after all the times it has been posted, but can someone provide
the preorder link?

 

[FoxyMulder]

So....

At this point...

If I really want the best version of this film on Blu-ray, the Italian release
is the way to go?

Hate to ask after all the times it has been posted, but can someone provide
the preorder link?

No, this new version is the best way to go.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

No, this new version is the best way to go.

Malcolm, why is that?

All I have been hearing is how great the Italian release has been.

Then, everyone is complaining about the urine colored transfer on
this new Fox release?Why is it still the one to go for?

 

[FoxyMulder]

Malcolm, why is that?

All I have been hearing is how great the Italian release has been.

Then, everyone is complaining about the urine colored transfer on
this new Fox release?Why is it still the one to go for?

The Italian release has edge enhancement, i also think that we have now heard them say that this new release has been colour timed using the original Italian look, they have had access to a source and one of the original cameramen, i would hazard a guess and also say the new 4K re-masters of the first two films will look identical to this one, this new release has a natural looking film like image, some gorgeous detail on display.

You have access to a CMS on your display, as i do on mine, if the colours are objectionable then they can be altered for this one film.

We always complain when things are changed by studio's, sometimes they adjust the contrast and boost it too much, sometimes they change the colours, sometimes they sharpen too much or use DNR too much, well that's all bad but if they are saying they have access to the original Italian Technicolor dye transfer prints and they have spent money getting the release to look like it originally looked then who am i or indeed anyone on this forum to say otherwise, just because USA or UK prints over the years didn't look like this doesn't mean they were correct, sometimes you gotta trust what they say no matter how ugly you think it looks.

To give just one example, Francis Ford Coppola's version of Dracula, for many years it had a very saturated look with regards it's colours, the brightness was higher too, for the blu ray release we have the look that they say was always wanted, i personally think it's an improvement and looks great, others disagree because they got used to the old look, well we got used to the old look of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, this is how they want it to look, this is how they claim it should look, who am i to doubt them and at the end of the day if my eyes hurt too much from it then i can always use my displays CMS and dial down the yellows and add a little more blue into the image.

The point is this release from a new 4K scan has gorgeous detail levels, natural looking film grain, it's the best version available.

 

[Ronald Epstein]

Malcolm,

That's very well put. Hard to argue with your point.

Thank You

 

[Alan Tully]

Well I don't trust 'em. Are they saying that the print looked this yellow in Italy, but normal in the rest of the world, & Leone never said anything? They obviously didn't film with any yellow filters, or it would never have looked normal elsewhere. And as for the assistant cameraman, he wouldn't have been around (or have anything to do with) when Leone sorted the colour grading/timing with the film lab, & did they send the original negatives out to the rest of the world for printing (I think not). Too many questions unanswered, & what do those Techicolor prints they have look like when properly projected.Does that mean Paramount's Once Upon A Time In The West is all wrong & will have to be redone with a thick yellow bias?

 

[FoxyMulder]

Too many questions unanswered, & what do those Techicolor prints they have look like when properly projected.

That's the $64m dollar question, did they see it using a Carbon Arc lamp or a Xenon bulb, maybe they did screw up because of that, regardless i still think this release is the best possible one to buy and since the look is uniform from beginning to end it should be *easy to change the colour using a CMS, i'd still like a lot more details, maybe the disc has a documentary on the restoration.

*famous last words.

 

[Jari K]

"...should be easy to change the colour using a CMS"Not fully sure what you mean, but I guess the goal is that the color scheme is "correct" (well, at least the best estimate of what is the original look etc) on the digital master - and therefore on the BD. I hardly never change any settings from the player or tv since it's calibrated. I leave the color correction to the professionals.

 

[Osato]

The Italian release has edge enhancement, i also think that we have now heard them say that this new release has been colour timed using the original Italian look, they have had access to a source and one of the original cameramen, i would hazard a guess and also say the new 4K re-masters of the first two films will look identical to this one, this new release has a natural looking film like image, some gorgeous detail on display.

You have access to a CMS on your display, as i do on mine, if the colours are objectionable then they can be altered for this one film.

We always complain when things are changed by studio's, sometimes they adjust the contrast and boost it too much, sometimes they change the colours, sometimes they sharpen too much or use DNR too much, well that's all bad but if they are saying they have access to the original Italian Technicolor dye transfer prints and they have spent money getting the release to look like it originally looked then who am i or indeed anyone on this forum to say otherwise, just because USA or UK prints over the years didn't look like this doesn't mean they were correct, sometimes you gotta trust what they say no matter how ugly you think it looks.

To give just one example, Francis Ford Coppola's version of Dracula, for many years it had a very saturated look with regards it's colours, the brightness was higher too, for the blu ray release we have the look that they say was always wanted, i personally think it's an improvement and looks great, others disagree because they got used to the old look, well we got used to the old look of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, this is how they want it to look, this is how they claim it should look, who am i to doubt them and at the end of the day if my eyes hurt too much from it then i can always use my displays CMS and dial down the yellows and add a little more blue into the image.

The point is this release from a new 4K scan has gorgeous detail levels, natural looking film grain, it's the best version available.

Until the next release in a year or so, when they include Fistful Of Dollars from the 4K scan as well..

I am content to wait it out until the next release. I preordered the set based on Amazon's listing stating that it was The Man With No Name Trilogy 4K set. I have since cancelled my order. I'm sure another release is in the works since Fistful of Dollars in 4K is being screened in Europe....

sigh. : )

 

[FoxyMulder]

"...should be easy to change the colour using a CMS"Not fully sure what you mean, but I guess the goal is that the color scheme is "correct" (well, at least the best estimate of what is the original look etc) on the digital master - and therefore on the BD. I hardly never change any settings from the player or tv since it's calibrated. I leave the color correction to the professionals.

I calibrate using an actual meter with computer software, to be precise an i1Display Pro 3 which has been referenced against a top of the line Jetti for greater accuracy, so yes the whole point would be you calibrate your displays and then leave well alone, obviously re-calibration may be necessary for projector bulbs every few hundred hours but other than that you should leave alone.

I would make an exception if this disc hurt my eyes, the point is you can adjust these things if you so wish even though you shouldn't have to do it, i would only do it if i knew for sure this release was not accurate, so far it's all conjecture at this point.

 

[Jari K]

"I would make an exception if this disc hurt my eyes..."But in that case you can actually "correct" the original color/look. I mean I'm sure some people feel that e.g. the dark-ish look by DOP Willis in The Godfather is hurting their eyes. But if you want to keep the original look, you don't adjust the brightness etc."I have since cancelled my order."I believe this is the 3rd time on this thread that you said it. We kinda get it already.

 

[Osato]

Is it possible that a Criterion release is in the works for later this year or 2015?

I know this rumor(?) was mentioned before in another thread about the films.

http://www.criterion.com/people/120836-sergio-leone

 

[FoxyMulder]

"I would make an exception if this disc hurt my eyes..."But in that case you can actually "correct" the original color/look. I mean I'm sure some people feel that e.g. the dark-ish look by DOP Willis in The Godfather is hurting their eyes. But if you want to keep the original look, you don't adjust the brightness etc."I have since cancelled my order."I believe this is the 3rd time on this thread that you said it. We kinda get it already.

Exactly, i can see you get my point, i DO NOT want to adjust anything if this is the intended look, if it isn't the intended look i have the controls to adjust it. Point is i didnt spend money on a specialist meter and software to constantly alter things, i spent that money to achieve perfection on the displays i have and i am relying on studio's to master their blu ray discs to a quality standard.

When you calibrate your display you use test patterns found on a disc like Spears and Munsil for brightness/contrast/sharpness etc, after this you would use need to use a meter for greyscale, gamma and colours and to this point i mean highly accurate greyscale, gamma and colours, what you do is you first get your white balance ( RGB ) all lining up between 10IRE and 100IRE so you can achieve accurate greyscale, get the delta errors within 2 at all levels as before you can get accurate colours you need an accurate white, you can also adjust your Gamma curve at this point and i would add that most displays now offer at least a 2 point white balance, many now have 10 point for greater accuracy.

After doing the above if you have a meter you would go into your CMS and adjust the hue, saturation and luminance ( or on some displays it's the red, green and blue of each colour ) of Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Cyan and Magenta, that's primaries and secondary colours, no way to do the colours by eye, a specialist meter and software, usually Chromapure or Calman is used, you can get each colour within spec using a CMS, that's colour management system. This takes many hours to do it right.

You cannot adjust contrast and recover lost detail, for example a contrast boosted release has detail removed, you cannot get this back by adjusting your contrast or brightness controls, on the other hand if a director wants to release one of his films with a green tint to replace the original blue tint, well no problem, you can adjust for that, the problem is this, how do we know what the original look is, many people here are saying this release does not have the original look and the colours are awful, yet MGM say it is a look sourced from the Italians who did the work and looked at Technicolor Dye transfer prints, who to believe.

 

[Vahan_Nisanain]

Is it possible that a Criterion release is in the works for later this year or 2015?

I know this rumor(?) was mentioned before in another thread about the films.

http://www.criterion.com/people/120836-sergio-leone

Please include the original English Mono! Either 161-minute cut, or a special 177 minute cut (using a combination of mono for the original scenes, and the newer mix for the extra scenes)

 

[Dale MA]

Hi Dale!Would you say that the new look of this film is acceptable? I know you found the detail in the image to be breathtaking in places, but overall, what did you think of the new color scheme?Still wondering if this is worth purchasing.

It's quite strange Ron, clouds appear with a yellowish tint, as do the (usually) white 'splats' in the opening title sequence. I have a hard time believing its accurate but I'm awaiting the experts to chime in (Mr. Harris for instance).Solely in terms of resolution, TGTBATU has never looked better. I just wish that we had the theatrical cut with a 4K scan and original (lossless) mono.I'm praying that Criterion get their hands on this.

 

[Jari K]

"I'm praying that Criterion get their hands on this."Even if (and that's a big IF) that would be the case, it'll take years before this is coming from Criterion. I mean why would they release a film that's just being released from the 4K master? Criterion has to think about the business side also.

 

[OliverK]

You cannot adjust contrast and recover lost detail, for example a contrast boosted release has detail removed, you cannot get this back by adjusting your contrast or brightness controls, on the other hand if a director wants to release one of his films with a green tint to replace the original blue tint, well no problem, you can adjust for that, the problem is this, how do we know what the original look is, many people here are saying this release does not have the original look and the colours are awful, yet MGM say it is a look sourced from the Italians who did the work and looked at Technicolor Dye transfer prints, who to believe.

I have adjusted the color on some movies before but this one is pretty extreme and I am not sure that it can be made to look "normal" that easily. In less extreme cases I agree that colors can be corrected to a degree but we cannot restore scrubbed grain or recover detail lost in blown out contrast, nor can we take away excessive EE. To be fair to the Italian release I will add that I found it to look very filmlike with extremely mild sharpening - we often see much worse.In any case we cannot expect MGM to say: "Alright folks, we messed that one up, please don't buy it" so they would probably say something like they do now even if something went terribly wrong. Using the wrong light source when looking at the reference check prints may already be the explanation why it looks so bad now, but until we get some more input on this it will all remain speculation.

 

[FoxyMulder]

In any case we cannot expect MGM to say: "Alright folks, we messed that one up, please don't buy it" so they would probably say something like they do now even if something went terribly wrong. Using the wrong light source when looking at the reference check prints may already be the explanation why it looks so bad now, but until we get some more input on this it will all remain speculation.

I love the film so at some point i have to get it, i may watch as is or i may try making some minor colour alterations, i can't stand EE and knowing there is a version out there without EE means i have to go for that version, even (if) the colours are screwed up.