SVS PB1 Plus SUCKS........ (1 Viewer)

[MuneebM]

I read this thread almost as soon as it was posted (had 0 replies) and thought it was pretty original and funny! It definitely got my attention because I'm an HSU owner who's scouring these forums to read something bad about SVS, but still have found nothing at all. I really want an SVS now that I've heard absolutely nothing but rave reviews about their subs. I just wish I could audition one out here in Eastern Canada and decide if I want to replace my 2-month old HSU STF-2

 

[MikeLi]

Hey if it will make you feel any better when I first started I went to both SVS and HSU. I knew nothing about subs. Ron at SVS took the time to see if I could get the duals I had working correctly without selling me anyting. I thought that was way above and beyond. After playing a few days and not having any luck I called him back, he asked for my room measurements and stuff and suggested the PB2+ for me when it would come out in like 6 months. I waited and am sure glad I did. Perfect sub, I love it and it stomped my dual NHT's into the dirt. On the other hand you can go over to AVS and find many folks that are very happy with their HSU's so you may have not done so bad after all. It may be the size you got wrong.. Maybe you need something bigger.

 

[Stephen Houdek]

Yeah,

I was over in the AVS forum for a bit last night. That place isn't nearly as friendly as this one. Talk about a bunch of opinionated snobs!! Well, I suppose this place does de-generate to that point at tims, not nearly as often though. -Likely the same folk on both forums.

Am I wrong in my impression that HSU has a much heavier presence over there and they are far less glowing, or convinced, about SVS?

 

[Paul_J_D]

I currently own the SVS PB1+ and the Hsu STF-2. I have a somewhat large listening room at 3,000 ft3. I listen to DVDs at about -15 to -20 off of reference levels.

The PB1+ still amazes me in its performance and value. Absolutely wonderful subwoofer for both movies and music listening.

The Hsu STF-2 is a nice sub too but you get what you pay for. It costs $400 and really can't compare to the PB1+. Whole different league as most of you know. I do think that it is worth the $400 because it does play accurate, but falters and bottoms out on some demanding HT movie scenes at the moderate to loud listening levels that I listen to. I did test it in a smaller listening room for a two channel setup sub and it performs nicely in there being flat to the 25 hz frequency per Hsu specs.

 

[steve nn]

It's nice to see a post by a member who has both subs Paul_J_D.. No surprise to me but still very informative.

 

[MikeLi]

And thats the kind of post that really helps us all as well.. Great post.

 

[Edward J M]

I'll echo those sentiments, Paul.

I also owned and (extensively tested/measured) an STF-2 for a week. I was considering it for an upstairs HT rig that the kids use.

No objections on music - sounded very good at reasonably loud volumes (say bass peaks of 90-95 dB) on nearly all popular source material, and gets down to 27-28 Hz pretty well in my 2000 ft3 room.

It can't do full justice to some of the deepest music recordings I have, though - it falls on its face with Renholder's "Now I Know" from the Underworld soundtrack, which has very strong 23 Hz bass throughout.

Its real shortcomings were on HT, where the LFE channel is automatically boosted 10 dB and you get 100-105 dB bass peaks at the same master volume level that gave you 90-95 on music.

The 10" 8mm xMax woofer simply can't move enough air at that moderate playback level (probably -15 RL) without significant compression or soft bottoming. Also, HT has tons of stuff in the 20-25 Hz region, where the STF-2 really stumbles in both output and THD.

When I was measuring THD, I was using 105 dB at the seat as representative of the maximum SPL bass peak I could expect for HT at -15RL. THD hovered between 10-12% at that volume in the >25 Hz region.

At 20 Hz (admittedly 1/3 octave below its rated extension), the STF-2 couldn't even hope to deliver 105 dB at the seat and doubled really badly at that test volume. I had to reduce the power input a factor of 10 and went for 95 dB at 20 Hz. Even at 95 dB @ 20 Hz, harmonics were easily audible, and THD measured 23%.

Bottom line - the STF-2 holds its own and sounds just fine on most popular music in smaller rooms. It can't deliver the goods on music with really deep (below about 26-27 Hz) bass, though. And it definitely is not suitable for action/fantasy oriented DVD HT applications, struggling and audibly distorting with the high amplitude, low frequency (20-25 Hz) signals so common to this format.

The 12" Hsu driver can move more than 3X the amount of air the 10" can, and I'm sure is much better suited for HT applications. Just how much better, I hope to soon find out....stay tuned.

 

[Ralph B]

I was gonna slam you..... lol

 

[Mike Sloan]

Edward J M,

Have you been monitoring the "subwoofer shootout" over at the spot... HSU MKII vs PB2-Plus vs Denali? Would have liked to hear your take on it! Appears the Denali edged out the PB2-Plus slightly for overal SPl's. The PB2-plus exceeded the performance of the dual VTF-3's in SPL testing and "subjective" musical evaluation. Missed your input, however.

Subwoofer Shootout

 

[Edward J M]

Hi Mike:

I have been monitoring this shoot-out from the outset, both at AVS (trolls) and at HT-SPOT (much better).

I suppose I didn't want to risk stealing Craig's thunder or appearing as a forum hog, so I've just been watching intently from the sidelines. He's doing a fine job!

Plus, with talent like Jack Gilvey on-board - phew - who the heck needs me muddling things up? :b



Denali:

16 Hz... 116 db
20 Hz... 118 db
25 hz... 122 db
31 Hz... 123 db
40 Hz... 121 db
50 Hz... 120 db
62 Hz... 119 db

PB2+

16 Hz... 114 db **
20 Hz... 119 db **
25 hz... 123 db *
31 hz... 123 db *
40 Hz... 121 db *
50 Hz... 119 db *
62 Hz... 119 db *

** = two ports open
* = three ports open

Looks pretty damn close. The "problem" is the PB2+ was tested for 16 Hz and 20 Hz with one port plugged and tested for 25-62 Hz with all ports open. It should have been tested in the 20 Hz tune for the entire bandwidth.

I noted a few people surmised it might lose 3 dB in the 25-62 Hz bandwidth with a single port plugged. I don't think it would be that big of a difference, especially in the upper frequencies.

The frequency bandwidth where the resonators have a significant effect on output is fairly narrow. The biggest output difference between the 20 Hz tune and the 25 Hz tune would probably be at 25 Hz, with an increasingly lesser effect as the frequencies increase. Above 31 Hz, the numbers might almost be unchanged.

Of course, this is all speculation, and the only way to be sure is to have Craig re-run the test with the 20 Hz tune for the entire bandwidth.

Regardless, this test should silence any critics of either design or driver. It is now quite apparent that dual TC-Sounds dB-12 drivers can run with a single Tumult in these particular alignments. Both products turned in an absolutely phenomenal and near identical performance.

By extrapolation, you can expect the Everest (which is essentially two stacked Denali's), and the B4-Plus to run very close. In fact, the unique push/pull vented alignment of the B4-Plus (which increases output by cancelling reactive forces and also reduces even order harmonics, particularly 2nd order) might give it an edge. Tough call, but it sure as hell won't be a slaughter either way.

Anyway - sorry for the thread hi-jack. I'm pretty darn close to pulling off a local PB1-ISD and STF-3 comparo; I think I've convinced a friend to buy both and we've got some potential buyers lined up locally for the one he won't keep. We're all so busy, I've got to check with him and see what the status is.

I'm sure both will test out very well and close, so there won't be any "losers" per se here, but one or the other might test out with better deep extension, or higher THD-limited output, etc. SQ is certainly subjective, but we'll double blind them and take notes. If we pull this off, I'll post a formal report at HTF and share the results with everyone. I never bothered to post a formal review on the STF-2, but the $600 class is so hot, I think many will want to see the results.

Regards,

Ed

 

[Chris Quinn]

Nice job on the thread title. Thirteen hundred hits in two days.

 

[Stephen Houdek]

Ron or Tom,

What is the current wait cycle for the PB1 Plus in the Red Color? Reading all these posts about bass is making me anxious to get this thing..

Also, I notice from other threads you have operations in Colorado (boo), Ohio (2x boo) and Michigan (Go Blue!).

My internet receipt shows SVS located in Holland Michigan. Can you give us the low-down on what you do where? If I were to make a two hour trek over to Holland what would I find? A computer taking orders or a production facility?

-Just curious.

 

[Steve Morgan]

ED,
How do you think the numbers would look on a PB2 Ultra as opposed to the PB2 plus? BTW installed the new amp just yesterday. Not using the notch filter letting the BFD do its thing.
Yea, I was suckered in to taking a peek.
Proud owner of a PB2 Ultra and lov'in it!

Steve

 

[John Robert]

Kind of reminds me of the GM ad campaign which says:

"If you want a new truck, GM says NO!"

of course, "No" turns out to be "No down payment", etc...

Nice thread

 

[Edward J M]

Oh, the PB2-Ultra is probably capable of 1.5-2.0 dB more clean output. THD will probably measure marginally lower across the scale. FR and extension points should be almost identical.

The PB2+ remains the performance value leader of the two, certainly. $600 more for the drivers and $500 more for the cabinet just totally alters the price/performance ratio.

The PB2-Ultra is all about what you want, not what you need. If you've reached the point in your life where it's reward time, this is the sub. The demographic looking to buy the PB2-Ultra will be as much interested in the furniture grade wood finish, the upgraded amp with PEQ, and the exclusivity and high technology (underhung 10-layer VC) of the famed TV-12 driver as in the fractionally better performance.

If you don't need the 140 dB capability of the B4-Plus, but want to know you have the very best SVS offers in terms of technology, craftsmanship, and sound quality, the PB2-Ultra is just the ticket.

The PB2-Ultra is the box equivalent of the SS cylinder, right at home in the most contemporary and upscale music and HT systems.

 

[Mike_Skeway]

 

[MikeLi]

Dr. Spike... Thats too bad about getting attacked on a personal choice decision. Especially since HSU and SVS are both good companies and most people that have been around awhile and know their histories know that. I made a post about my speaker selection after alot of reasearch, trying, and decided to buy an internet brand of those too. I had been running top of the line NHT's that were 4 years old with dual subs. They were always just missing something in my large room. Boy did I take a beating, I snapped back at one of they guys which is totally against my mild self and also got a note from David Bott at AVS how atacking my thread was and to knock it off when I felt it was totally the other guys fault. Anyway I decided I can live without SVS for places like this and the av123.com forum where everyone gets treated nice even if you don't own their products. I know its a bummer those first few days after the slam but dont let it get to you. You got what you wanted and hopefully it is doing what you wanted it too and heck with everyone else as it was for you, not them. Alot of folks at AVS and some of the other specific company forums like a few folks at Axiom are rude to put it mildly and I am too old for that. hang in there and have a better day.

 

[ScottCarr]

The other HT forum I frequent recent had a post asking which sub would best fit a bedroom. It seemed the SVS users had no problem recommending the HSU of the larger SVS. they complemented the HSU and assured the person asking the question the HSU is a quality sub. If this was mentioned in the HSU forum that person just as well have asked to be banished.

AVS David has his work cut out for him. Lots of knowledgable people that know their stuff but I swear to you they could have a 100 page thread agruing whether or not a particular screw has 27.4 threads or 27.45 threads to it.

This is why I donate to 2 particular sites, this being one of them. Its friendly and informative. If someone as a "stupid Question" most realize it is not stupid since we probably asked the same one earlier on our HT venture.

Hats off to Ron E for hosting a great site.....

scott

 

[Stephen Houdek]

That is too funny.....and exactly my experience on that forum.

I call it pin-head disease. You can't see the forest because you're too busy arguing over the color of the bark. I can't even read some of those threads because they bore you silly.

 

[MikeLi]

I saw that one where the HSU was being pushed ahead of an SVS owner for a bedroom application. I have heard of Ron at SVS recommending other brands for specific applications. Where else would you get an owner being so honest!