Subwoofer Sunday Shootout

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by John S, Nov 6, 2005.

  1. John S

    John S Producer

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    SVS PB12-Ultra/2 -vs Velodyne DSL5000R

    Had a blast with the two subwoofers for a couple of hours. Finally getting RoomEQWizard running on my laptop, It was really cool watching the sweep extend strong down to 16hz on the SVS for sure. The DLS5000R was no slouch, the curves looked very similar except the Velodyne had the same output at 20hz that the SVS had at 16hz.

    Even on all out demand the subs seemed more similar than different. Both provided easily 110db on over all output from 20hz to 80hz. Both come with 1000 wat amps. I didn't see much need to go beyond these levels even though both subs sure seemed like they were not really breaking a sweat at these substancial levels.


    We used the big metal ball drop scene from Fight Club for the real world shootout.

    Both subs running at the same time, one in each front coner of the theater we hit an amazing 117db with an around reference level running on the system even recalibrated for the dual subs. The SVS hit 109db to 110db by itself, the Velodyne hit around 108db to 109db on the same scene, same volume level by itself.

    The Velodyne seemed to actually have a tad more impact during some parts of some audition scenes, we both agreed with this. The SVS just stays nice and flat and silky smooth if you can actually say such a thing about a giant power house sub that is rocking your world with bass.

    Both subs were extremely impressive by themselves, and pure sub heaven running together, I have to admit I have really come full circle on the dual sub debate, and once again find myself liking duals more in general over any single sub solution.



    While the test didn't make me an SVS convert especially given the budget difference, the SVS did show why it is still a way bargain in the Subs that can actually reproduce 16hz arena, the Velodyne sure showed why it is still king in the under $600 arena as well.

    It was fun, the SVS sub was giant compared to the Velodyne sub in physical size.


    But what a fun way to spend a Sunday morning. And Todd you have a really beautiful theater there. If you haven't posted pics of your theater on here, you sure should, others would love to see it.
     
  2. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    The review on this sub at the Secrets of Home Theater site indicated the street price for the Velodyne was $799.

    Very interesting shoot-out. Thanks for posting the information. [​IMG]
     
  3. BradJudy

    BradJudy Stunt Coordinator

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    It looks like list is $799 and street is lower (not sure if $600 is common or not).
     
  4. HoraceHungry

    HoraceHungry Auditioning

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    First of all, thanks for sharing [​IMG]

    The DLS5000R has a 600w amp, the 1000w are it's dynamic power, and I from what I've read the Ultra/2 has something like 2kw+ dynamic power

    There is a test of the DLS5000R over at avtalk.co.uk


    The DLS series is called CHT in europe.

    When you compare the numbers with the ones in Edwards test of the Ultra/2 you will se that there is a big difference in depth, and distortion. I'm a bit surprised that you found them so alike since the numbers are so different.
     
  5. John S

    John S Producer

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    It was an interesting morning for sure.

    I couldn't really do distortion. But even the published test numbers reveal pretty much right on with what I found. The Velodyne is at 20hz about what the SVS is at 16hz.

    Todd doesn't post all to much on here, I was hope'n he would come on and give his impressions as well.

    He posted a few weeks ago about his drastic room null, around 40hz sitting right in his sweet spot, he is going to get a second sub, not only did it solve the nulss issue, but his curve was really great with two, and the performance pretty out of this world.


    The Velo is easily available for the $600 with prudent price shopping.
     
  6. John S

    John S Producer

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    Let me clarify some, this was a theater room on the smaller side. So the Velo had no issues with the demand.

    I have no doubt the SVS would slay it on sheer output if the volumes had been run higher, making it capable of meeting the demand of a larger / more difficult room.
     
  7. Todd smith

    Todd smith Supporting Actor

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    I would just like to confirm everything that John said as being true as I was there being my house and all[​IMG] I would also like to say he was a super good guy and I really appreciated him taking the time to come over with his big velo and help me with my issues. We determined that a second sub should help me out which is a mixed blessing but overall I am verry happy to know this. I love my svs and would not trade it for anything that I know of, but I have to say that I was verry impressed with the velo especially considering how much it cost. The two subs to my ears sounded really good together and there was this feel of unlimited power. I just need to figure a way to get that second ultra now! It was a fun morning and it was cool to meet somebody off the forum. I may do a little more dual sub testing before I take the plunge on the second ultra just to be absolutely sure (before I move another one of those down my stairs I want to make absolutely sure!), but so far this looks to be the answer to my problem. Thanks again John!
     
  8. John S

    John S Producer

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    Thanks Todd for posting in.
    I was hope'n for a little confirmation on all this. [​IMG]


    That fantastic sub-age with both subs running was no illusion, except for the 30hz bump from your room, that was one of the most beautiful curves imaginable with both them subs running. [​IMG]
     
  9. HoraceHungry

    HoraceHungry Auditioning

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    It always fun to do listening tests. Some norwegians did a similar test between the CHT15, and the SVS PB10, and they preferred the PB10 [​IMG]
     
  10. John S

    John S Producer

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    I have a CHT15 (US Version older model) and the DLS5000R is a much better performer.

    I've heard a couple of PB10's, they didn't do much for me personally on the Theater side, really great music sub though.
     
  11. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    Interesting! I used to run dual Velodyne ct-150 until I received my first SVS 25-31CS+. The CS+ could keep up in the higher FR along with far surpassing the dual in the lower FR, even though it was the higher tuned 25. Sounds like the DLS5000R is a big improvement then. The ct and the CHT were basically the same sub. I actually had a amp go out and they (Velodyne) sent me a CHT amp to swap out of one of the ct's.
     
  12. John S

    John S Producer

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    Yeah the DLS amp section is much much better than the oler CHT15 amp section, the DSP sort of cheats for extension. Still can't really match the meaner SVS subs. But in this particular theater room you sure didn't feel like you lost much if anything at all going from the Ulta/2 to the DLS5000R. Just another note too, do not think the 12" and smaller DLS lines subs are even close to what you get with the 15" version. I don't even like the 12" DLS sub at all and love the 15".


    It is my bargain sub of choice these days for sure, re-enforced by these latest tests.


    On another note, anybody that may still be on the fence about MLS using a sound card and a pc / laptop?

    Get off that fence, I am now quite embarrased that I was still using a tone generator and an O-scope for such duties.


    RoomEQWizard can do a better job in 10 seconds than I could the old fashond way in an hour. What an eye opening experience just getting that running was. You can still use your DB meter for the Mic, a few cheap cords and viola, instant killer sound analysis. [​IMG]


    It even compensates for cheapie sound cards, I was very blown away, and it has changed my life forever, for the better I might add.

    If you already have a DB meter, and a PC or laptop. Download it and give it a shot. I don't think the needed adapters and nice long cables were but $20 at Radio Shack, once I found the right rack where they were located. Not with their normal gold end audio stuff, back in the back where their video distribution stuff was.
     
  13. rob-h

    rob-h Second Unit

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    So you are saying that $700 sub hangs with the $2k Ultra2? Thats pretty much thier top of the line sub other then the 12+ 4. And the ultra 2's drivers way outclass the + drivers. Thats a little shocking and would more then be the deal of the subwoofer world!
     
  14. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    That would be shocking, but I don't think this is being implied? If it is, then maybe we ought to dig a little deeper and see how they differ.[​IMG]
     
  15. John S

    John S Producer

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    In this room.... This was not a tough room by any means, not a large room by any means.

    And yes in this room, it hung in there very well. Tell you the truth I'd rather have two of the DLS5000R's than one of the SVS Ultra/2's.

    That DLS5000R is a doosey for the money. I'd rather have one DLS5000R than one DD12 as well. I am really down on all single 12" subs these days though.
     
  16. Shervin_Sabri

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    my sentiments exactly... that would be the best deal ever made since buying Microsoft stock in 1985! [​IMG]
     
  17. Owen Bartley

    Owen Bartley Second Unit

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    John, did you have any cancelation problems with the subs in two different corners? Or did you tweak the phase or something to get them optimized working together? That's my big fear about having 2 subs, and I've heard some people say that 2 subs sound better stacked in the same corner than spread out due to cancelation.
     
  18. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    No that was the Ultra/2 you were demoing. Not what I would call a bottom feeder unless...Could you fill me in on how you had the PB12-Ultra/2 setup? 25 Hz tune with EQ or in the 16..12 Hz tune option?
     
  19. John S

    John S Producer

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    NO cancellation issues at all by the meter, quite the opposite as he had a bad null in the middle of his room / right at the center sweet spot seating, and adding the 2nd sub cured it completely. I think I had phase set to zero, not sure how he had his ports tuned on his sub either or his phase, or his eq.


    Distortion is pretty high on the DLS at 20 hz, but it is decently high on the SVS at 16 according to other tests I have seen.



    Todd will have to chime back in on the specifics of how he is running his sub, I thought he said 20hz tuning, but I could be wrong.

    Room size was probably 15' x 22' with 8' cieling.
     
  20. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    John,
    Thanks for sharing. I would bet in a bigger room the differences would be easier to spot and it may not be even close when going there.
     

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