Subwoofer Isn't Making The Impact I Expected (1 Viewer)

[Bob Brick]

This is from the "Wow,, the room DOES make a difference" thread, which blames poor room acoustics for "missing" bass:

Even though I've heard people talk about it on this board, I've never realized how much the room and placement can affect the sound of a sub. I have an SVS 20-39PCi, which I absolutely love. I just moved into a new place and got my theater set back up. In my old setup, the sub gave a wonderfully smooth response. Even walking around the room, it didnt seem to affect the sound very much. I guess I was lucky to have such an environment.

I fired up AVIA to calibrate it in the new room today, and the bottom end is GONE!!! Anything under 50Hz seemed to really drop off. I did a quick frequency plot with my RS SPL meter an there is a huge hump in the response from about 50Hz to 80Hz. It peaked around 60Hz. I tried playing a few bass-heavy DVDs and they sounded drastically different. Unfortunelty, I don't have to flexibility to move the sub around in the room to try and flatten the response. Looks like I will be investing in a BFD!!

I guess this post is just for all you newcomers out there who think the room can't possibly make that big of a difference. I suppose I was one of those people until today!

 

[DarrenAlan]

One more thing: Have you tried running the DefTechs full range and using the sub to just fill in the very lowest registers? I have a Yamaha HTR-5150 with an active 90 Hz crossover. With the mains set to "small" and the sub running over 100, the system sounds just awful. But with my mains (KEF Q15, -3 db down @ 50 Hz) running full range and the sub Xover set to about 55-60 (hard to tell exactly), the system sounds much better and the bass is much tauter and more pronounced.

Worth a shot.

 

[MattCPT]

Bob,
I fear that my problem is the room. I can't imagine the PB-1 isn't capable of producing better bass than I'm hearing. Like I said the bass isn't bad but it isn't better.

Darren,
You may have a good point, but I don't want to change the set-up of the sub when my problem is that I don't notice a significant impact from the sub. Your suggestion would make my main speakers sound better, but I don't think it will enhance the performance of the sub because the room limitation won't change. Thank you for the thought.

Tom,
I sent you the fax of my room layout on Monday, I hope you received it. I don't own TPM, but I will check to see if I have the THX intro on one of my other DVDs (I own mostly concert DVDs however). I will try one more time to get an improved response from the PB-1 tonight, but if nothing changes than I'll send it back to you on Friday (I bet my loss will make someone else very happy with their B-stock purchase, I wish I didn't have a reason to send it back).

 

[MikeLi]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a BFD?

"Looks like I will be investing in a BFD!!""""

Thanks

 

[Bill Polley]

I second the BFD. I used tones downloaded from a tone generator on the internet (mentioned several posts ago on this thread) and my Radio Shack meter to set up the BFD. My bass is very deep, very clean, and very loud when it needs to be, with absolutely no boominess. My room, by the way, is about as bad as one can get...12'6" X 13'6" with a 10' X 8' opening on one wall and a 9'2" high ceiling!

To answer the last post, a BFD is the Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro. It is a 2 channel 12 band fully parametric EQ. It is the BEST way to equalize a sub, giving you nearly limitless ways to adjust for room peaks and nulls. My 16-46 PCI is flat in my room to within +-1/2 db from 22-85hz and down 3db at 15 hz! (of course I run it 2db hotter than my other speakers just to ad a bit of kick)

My buddy can't get his quite as flat as mine, but that is only because he has a monster room null in a narrow notch from 55 to 65 hz. Still, we have his room within +-1.5db throughout the range except for the -3db dip at the null point. Without the BFD we don't get nearly as flat of a response!

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDSP1124P

 

[DarrenAlan]

Matt, I think you missed my point. The active x-over might be altering your signal in negative ways that is affecting the sub's ability to simply play deep tones.

Also, the point isn't the "impact of the sub," but the total bass energy in your room, right? So running your DefTechs full range gets two more woofers -- 8"? 10"? -- into the mix.

Plus, x-over'd @ 80 Hz, you're asking your sub to play harmonics at 2X that level, which it may or may not do well.

That said, it probably IS your room and a BFD may be the way to go. But since the x-over tweak can be done in like 15 minutes max, what's the harm in trying?

 

[Nathan Porteous]

Thats the only reason me and lots of people like me don't buy svs or hsu. How many people would but a set of speakers they never heard even if you can send it back you cant compare to anything else and isn't that the point of auditioning. If you ask me I think SVS should have their own stores around so you can actually listen to them. For me its to much of a hastle to order one. Now i know its also good for lots of people to but in my opinion there losing alot of business from people like me. But hey how bad could they be with hundreds of thousands of satisifed costomers lol

 

[MikeLi]

On the other hand... how many brick and mortar stores will let you have a sub at home to use for 30 days and take it back without hassle. Not many that I know of that carry higher end gear anyway. Plus shipping is not that big of a deal..I cant figure out why so many people complain about even $50 for shipping (thats a high figure for most speakers) when it could be the ones you have finally figured out work for your setup. I'd much rather have UPS deliver my speakers at my door and pick them up for $50 if I didnt like them than go to a store and pick them up and then return them myself.

 

[Bill Polley]

When I bought my SVS about a year ago, they offered a 45 day money back home trial offer. What better way is there to audition something?

 

[Jeremy Anderson]

If you ask me I think SVS should have their own stores around so you can actually listen to them.

And then the cost of their subwoofers has to be raised to handle the overhead of running the storefronts, the lease on the locations, advertising, etc... and suddenly it isn't such a "bang for the buck" situation anymore. The next thing you know, you're paying 50% more for their cheapest sub.

Or you could just gamble the measly cost of shipping -- a gamble that, based on all the glowing reviews, is essentially a sure thing. I laid my shipping money on the table and rolled the dice... and you'll have to pry my 20-39CS+ from my cold dead hands, 'cause that's the only way it's leaving this house.

 

[Nathan Porteous]

Its not the 50 dollar shipping its the 150 shipping cnd. So what if i dont like it it costs me 150 just to listen to it, no thx

 

[steve nn]

Darn! New spelling format wont let me post what I had wrote. Boiled down> Very hard to demo a sub on the sales floor. I would not call it a demo.

 

[MikeLi]

You still cant demo a sub very good in a store. So if they wont let you bring it home your out of luck. If you bring it home and find out you dont like it and they wont take it back your in even more trouble. I'd say way more than $150 and that doesnt even include the savings buy buying off the net anyway.

 

[Nathan Porteous]

I take the subs home to demo never at the store with a deposit they'll let you take anything home and all 4 places a within 5 min of work. And I not a idiot i would't buy it without listening to a home first some dont have that option but i do.

 

[Arthur Vino]

What is TPM DVD?
Thanks...

 

[Jon-C]

STAR WARS:Episode I (The Phantom Menace)

 

[Lee Bailey]

Thats the only reason me and lots of people like me don't buy svs or hsu. How many people would but a set of speakers they never heard even if you can send it back you cant compare to anything else and isn't that the point of auditioning. If you ask me I think SVS should have their own stores around so you can actually listen to them. For me its to much of a hastle to order one. Now i know its also good for lots of people to but in my opinion there losing alot of business from people like me. But hey how bad could they be with hundreds of thousands of satisifed costomers lol

Nathan, try Audio Envy , and see if there are any SVS owners close to you that would let you listen to an SVS. I've had my SVS 25-31PC since early 2001, and it was without a doubt the best investment I've made in my HT.

 

[MikeLi]

Sorry Nathan Porteous if I offended you as that was not my point. I also did not notice you were in Canada which makes things alittle more expensive coming from the US to your end. I also do not think your an idiot, you seem like a great guy. I was just pointing out my view of things. Again sorry if you took it wrong. I just don't think that $2-$300 in shipping is that big of a deal if you find the speakers you really want to live with.
Mike

 

[Mike Sloan]

Go ahead and audition the OEM stuff...but if you don't have HSU,SVS, etc. to compare to... what are you gaining? You have simply picked the best of the OEM stuff that is overpriced and overrated. Pick up the latest S&V magazine. They rate a slew of "OEM" garbage(subs)....and they all can't hold a candle to either HSU or SVS...and the Bag End Infrasub-12 retails for over $1700.00! I wonder how the PBS-2Plus would stack up against your OEM products on a price/performance ratio?
I paid over $250.00 in return shipping when I was choosing gear for my HT...it was money well spent!

ps. To suggest that SVS establish a chain of stores is not understanding the advantages of being an "internet-only" retailer.

 

[Rick-S]

I may be wrong but I have always felt that people are entitled to their own opinion.

People are not idiots just because they may not agree with you or anyone else.


Just my 2 cents