Star Trek films on Blu-Ray... what we know so far (1 Viewer)

[Ted Van Duyn]

I have an urge to watch Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan after just having watched "Into Darkness" for the 2nd time (awesome film!). For someone who isn't a "Trekkie" like myself, can anyone tell me if the "Into Darkness" storyline is a continuation of sorts of the storyline from the 1982 film? That scene of Leonard Nimoy in "Darkness" being asked if he'd encountered Khan previously led me to my curiosity.

No. The Khan that Nimoy's Spock describes is not the Khan that you get in either "The Wrath of Khan" or the original series episode "Space Seed".

Prime Spock: He will not hesitate to kill every last one of you.

Jesus Khan maybe, but not the original Khan. In Space Seed, Khan took over the Enterprise by depriving the crew of oxygen only long enough to knock everyone out. When he held the bridge crew hostage, he offered them the chance to join him with the reassurance that he would treat them well. When that didn't work, he showed them a live video of Captain Kirk in a pressure chamber and that if Spock joined him he would spare Kirk's life. When Spock refused, he than offered the chance to spare Kirk if ANYONE joined him. So not only does he hesitate to kill anyone, he actually sweetens the deal to spare the Captain's life.

One of the unfortunate side effects of "The Wrath of Khan" being regarded as the best movie of the film franchise is that it cements the idea that Khan has always been a a vengeful driven mad man. That's not the case at all because after the events of Space Seed, he was forced to watch 20 of his followers and the his wife die horrible deaths to an alien eel over the course of 15 long years on a barren planet. His motivation for revenge is not only strong and drawn out, but tangible. It's through the course of these 15 years that changes him to what he's best known for, the bad guy who is out to get Kirk. But even with that, he still has "some" sense of hesitation in killing Kirk and his crew. After getting the upper hand on Kirk and having the perfect opportunity to destroy the Enterprise all together, Khan takes a moment to 'gloat' at Kirk, which gives Kirk the opportunity to discuss terms of his surrender. When Kirk offers the chance to beam himself aboard to spare the rest of his crew, Khan actually agrees to the terms on the condition he hand over any information regarding Genesis. Now you might say he was bluffing, but there is some chance that he would have stuck to his word. When Khan took over the Reliant, he could have easily killed the entire crew but he chose to leave them on Ceti Alpha Five. I'm not saying he was misunderstood since he did kill the scientists on Regula One, just that kind of thing was not his character before TWOK.

Here's another detail from Prime Spock that is told through NuSpock.

Jesus Khan: Mr. Spock, give me my crew.
NuSpock: What will you do when you get them?
Jesus Khan: Continue the work we were doing before we were banished.
NuSpock: Which is as I understand it involves the mass genocide of any being you find to be less than superior.
Jesus Khan: Shall I destroy you, Mr. Spock?

This is probably the biggest change in Khan's character. The original Khan was not a genocidal cold-blooded mad man. While he was certainly a dangerous adversary, he was never out to get anyone. When he retaliated against Kirk on the Enterprise, it was done under the circumstances that Khan would not be allowed revive his people and taken to some place against their will (Kirk did bring up a reorientation center). If Khan's intent on Earth was to kill everyone who was not a "superman", don't you think the history books would have described him as such? That's not what we get in Space Seed as Kirk and crew discover.

KIRK: Name, Khan Noonien Singh.
SPOCK: From 1992 through 1996, absolute ruler of more than a quarter of your world. From Asia through the Middle East.
MCCOY: The last of the tyrants to be overthrown.
SCOTT: I must confess, gentlemen. I've always held a sneaking admiration for this one.
KIRK: He was the best of the tyrants and the most dangerous. They were supermen, in a sense. Stronger, braver, certainly more ambitious, more daring.
SPOCK: Gentlemen, this romanticism about a ruthless dictator is
KIRK: Mister Spock, we humans have a streak of barbarism in us. Appalling, but there, nevertheless.
SCOTTY: There were no massacres under his rule.
SPOCK: And as little freedom.
MCCOY: No wars until he was attacked.
SPOCK: .....Gentlemen.
KIRK: Mister Spock, you misunderstand us. We can be against him and admire him all at the same time.

As ruler, he massacred no one and waged no wars until war was waged on him. When Kirk indirectly interrogates Khan at dinner, he learns that there was more to Khan leaving Earth than just "adventure". After Kirk implies that he fled, Khan angrily says that he and his people offered the world order. And that's why he fled. Not because Earth condemned him and his followers as war criminals, but that the world itself rejected his rule and he didn't want to be a part of a world that would reject him. When Kirk finds out who Khan really is and asks him again, his answer is honest.

KHAN: A new life. A chance to rule a world.
*After accepting Kirk's proposal for being left on Ceti Alpha 5 and taking Marla with her*
KHAN: And I've gotten something else that I wanted. A world to win, an empire to build.

That's not what we get with Jesus Khan in "Star Trek Into Darkness". No mention of the Eugenics Wars, no mention that he ever ruled any part of Earth and no ambition from his character at all. The fact that he's Khan doesn't even mean anything in this movie. It's not a continuation of any previous story like TWOK was, and everything that made his character more of an "out of place" adversary and less of an inherently evil bad guy is all but gone in this new depiction. What makes it worse is that by having Prime Spock describe the old Khan like this completely disregards the original canon.

I know Roberto Orci is a self-declared fan of Star Trek, but all I see in his work is just the general perception of what these characters are and not what they really are. The most obvious clue being what he said in regards to how Khan is to Star Trek as the Joker was to Batman. That sort of comparison is not only highly inaccurate, it also misses the point of the Batman/Joker dynamic as well. The reason why The Joker is such an iconic villain to Batman is because the Joker represents the exact opposite that Batman represents. Batman fights crime, and the Joker is the pinnacle criminal who will do the worst things imaginable just for the heck of it. He gives Batman a purpose. Khan on the other hand, while an iconic villain in his own right, doesn't need to exist in order for Star Trek to work because Star Trek isn't always about fighting a vengeance driven mad man.

 

[Lockjaw]

Okay---that was helpful.

 

[Nelson Au]

Ted, you've very clearly described the two Khans and part of the reason I had issues with the film. (I've never heard of the Cumberbatch Khan referred to as Jesus Khan!)Montaban Khan and Jesus Khan both start at the same timeline. Nero's time change should not have altered Khan since he was sleeping on the Botany Bay.

 

[bryan4999]

Ted - beautifully written. As much as I enjoyed "Into Darkness" as a fun action movie, they short-changed story for more action. A real exploration of an alternate universe TOS Khan could have been quite fascinating.

 

[Sam Favate]

This probably belongs in the STID thread, but as we're comparing STID and TWOK:

Entertainment Geekly: Why is everyone so upset about 'Star Trek Into Darkness'?

http://popwatch.ew.com/2013/09/19/star-trek-into-darkness-jj-abrams/

A good read.

 

[Ted Van Duyn]

Ted - beautifully written. As much as I enjoyed "Into Darkness" as a fun action movie, they short-changed story for more action. A real exploration of an alternate universe TOS Khan could have been quite fascinating.

I wouldn't have had much of a problem if they had just established that this Khan is a completely different interpretation of the original Khan. While I would still have been disappointed at the lack of range and depth, at least they weren't going to mess with the original. But that scene with Spock Prime does exactly that. Not only is Jesus Khan meant to represent the exact the same Khan from the original universe, but that the original Khan was also as inherently evil as Jesus Khan is here.Khan and his followers were not war criminals who were condemned to death/banished. They were fleeing a world that rejected their idea of world order and fled seeking to create an empire of their own. Too ambitious? "Superior ambition" was one of the central themes to his character. Their purpose was not to commit genocide on those he considered inferior. Heck, the original Khan took a regular human as his companion and eventual wife. Even calling her a "superior woman". And she, Marla McGivers, just happened to be the inferior human who betrayed him in that very episode. Her death is one of the defining details on why he wants revenge against Kirk in the first place.And even if I was to take this Jesus Khan character on his own, he's still a poorly thought out character. The film bangs the audience over the head many times over the fact he cares about his followers so much that the mere thought of losing them not only brings him to tears but also commit acts of destruction and mass murder. Literally. Yet when he realizes that the Torpedoes that Kirk has might be the ones that contain his crew, he simply tells Kirk to open them. Problem? These torpedoes are fully capable of detonating their payload, and there are booby traps installed that will trigger a countdown that causes the torpedo to detonate. Does Khan tell Kirk or anyone else how to properly open these torpedoes? No. And you can't really argue that he didn't know about the booby traps because he clearly states that he designed and built those torpedoes himself. He risked the life of a follower, someone he cares so deeply for, for no reason at all. But hey, at least JJ Abrams was happy that because of that disarming torpedo scene, he could have that sequence where Carol Marcus randomly undresses to her underwear....I do not like this movie.

 

[Osato]

Watched Star Trek V on blu ray this evening. There's a strange light band at the bottom of the screen where Kirk and Spock are on the Klingon ship. I'm guessing it's a problem with the film reel that was used?

Thought it switch gears back to the Prime universe too.

: )

 

[Tino]

Can we please stop referring to Khan as "Jesus" for obvious reasons?

 

[Tino]

And perhaps the fact that Khan tortured and slit the throats of pretty much everyone on the space station in ST II had a bearing on Prime Spock's comments. I DO love this movie.

 

[Nelson Au]

Well, there is the Prime Khan and the Alternate Khan, using the recent naming conventions.

 

[Lockjaw]

And perhaps the fact that Khan tortured and slit the throats of pretty much everyone on the space station in ST II had a bearing on Prime Spock's comments.I DO love this movie.

I love both the old and new movies, but on the subject of the Blu-rays.............


Has it been established that no version, in any country contains deleted scenes?

And is it known if any substantial deleted scenes exist for STID.

There was the Harrison shower scene and a brief scene where it is explained that Carol was raised in England.
Those are all I know of. Any info.

 

[Gary Seven]

Agreed.. brilliant analysis Ted. A technically well produced movie with a script that could not be more moronic.

The irony of all this is that the original Star Trek was successful because of its characters and stories but with the most basic of special effects. The new Star Trek is devoid of these characters with no compelling story and great special effects.

 

[Tino]

Sez you.

 

[Tino]

Star Trek Into Darkness (2013)TOMATOMETERAll CriticsTop Critics87Average Rating: 7.5/10Reviews Counted: 244Fresh: 212 | Rotten: 32Visually spectacular and suitably action packed, Star Trek Into Darkness is a rock-solid installment in the venerable sci-fi franchise, even if it's not as fresh as its predecessor.AUDIENCE91liked itAverage Rating: 4.3/5User Ratings: 242,028For what it's worth, STID was the pretty much the best reviewed film of the summer. Just an observation.

 

[Jason Charlton]

What others think of a film does not affect what I think of a film.

 

[Gary Seven]

For what it's worth, STID was the pretty much the best reviewed film of the summer. Just an observation.

Pretty sad really when a movie gets good reviews simply on the basis of "Visually spectacular and suitably action packed" (and it is visually spectacular and action-packed). But the story is stupid and the characters completely different from what made them famous.

 

[Lockjaw]

Could we turn this thread back to the subject of the Trek movie Blu-rays and not take this moronic debate between haters and lovers any further?

A guy asks a simple question and some nuts decide to prepare a document on why the movie is bad?

That's some petty obsessive non-sense to be pulling in this thread.

 

[Tino]

What others think of a film does not affect what I think of a film.

I agree 100%. Back on topic of Star Trek Blurays, has anyone picked up the Star Trek Original Series Origins Bluray? The Best Buy upgrade and save program should be coming up soon so I may pick it up for $11.99.

 

[Lockjaw]

I agree 100%.Back on topic of Star Trek Blurays, has anyone picked up the Star Trek Original Series Origins Bluray? The Best Buy upgrade and save program should be coming up soon so I may pick it up for $11.99.

Ah, I see you weren't able to pick up the recent TOS season 1-3 combined box set which they were selling for the insane price of less than $85 a while back!

The Original series Blu-rays are one of my prized possessions and I never go a week without watching at least one episode.
Hi-def digest and Blu-ray.com both have reviews of the set--which unfortunately have no new features other than a pretty lame intro by Rod Roddenberry.
But by all means, if you haven't experienced TOS on Blu-ray--they are fantastic.

 

[Osato]

Ah, I see you weren't able to pick up the recent TOS season 1-3 combined box set which they were selling for the insane price of less than $85 a while back!

The Original series Blu-rays are one of my prized possessions and I never go a week without watching at least one episode.
Hi-def digest and Blu-ray.com both have reviews of the set--which unfortunately have no new features other than a pretty lame intro by Rod Roddenberry.
But by all means, if you haven't experienced TOS on Blu-ray--they are fantastic.

+ 1

Watching The Wrath of Khan this evening.