Spider-man 3 - On Going Developments (1 Viewer)

[Brent M]

Be careful stepping down off that soapbox. I wouldn't want you to sprain an ankle or anything.

 

[TravisR]

I know none of that was directed to me but the movie's main point for existence is to entertain people. They didn't sit down and think about how to tell a Spider-Man story that would parallel the downfall of our society's values. First and foremost, they want people to have fun. It's fine that you're seeing and pointing out the subtler aspects of the movie but it's not like that's the major aspect of the movie.

 

[DaveF]

I agree strongly with this, Adam. This is also a criticism I've had of the villains since SpiderMan 1: the villains aren't "bad", or least they have no control over their wickedness, they are made that way. Green Goblin went mad from the performance enhancing drugs. Doc Ock was driven crazy by the robo-arms.

S3 suggested villains who are bad from moral choices, or struggling to were struggling to balance good and evil, but it got lost in the mud.

Compare this to X-Men 1 & 2, with very strong characters with their morality decisions, especially Magneto, and it's clear to me that S3 is a weak movie. Not because I'm a crazed fan, but just because it's a weak story with medicore character writing.

 

[Chris]

Just to be contrary:

If Spiderman 3 made me "think" then I thought the end message was -terrible-. Sandman -KILLED- Peter Parker's uncle, killed numerous cops in his rampage, killed a few dozen people as he flung things around and tried to kill Mary Jane as part of a conspiracy plot with Venom in an attempt to kill Spiderman. In the end, Spiderman hears his hard luck story and.. let's him GO? With no real punishment? What kind of message is that? In the end, the moral message is: well, he didn't want to do any of it, at least not at first, so we should let the past be the past and cut him some slack for all that murder'in and cavort'in.

I had kind of a low opinion of the film in comparison to it's peers, but Randall's argument really got me thinking, especially in comparison to say, 300, which I thought was a far superior film. In 300, where you had a mythical telling of a battle, you had men who chose to sacrifice their lives in an attempt for "the greater good" because they believed that sacrifice, against common logic, was required to save their homes and families. Simple morality tell: would you make the ultimate sacrifice for others?

Spiderman, as a morality tale, would be all over the map: kill some people, make a life attempt and.. oh, I guess nothing happens. Take vengence and try to kill a person, out of rage without reason, envy is a far more grave event then murder.. I don't know, I'm struggling to come up with a positive morality tale out of Spiderman 3.

Let's face it, it's not "To Kill a Mockingbird" Heck, the more I "think" about Spiderman3 and the supposed messages, the worse the film gets. :frowning:

 

[Jason Harbaugh]

I 'think' the movie just wasn't that great. After 'thinking' about this weekend I 'think' I came to the conclusion that I just didn't care about any of the characters anymore. They all could have died at the end and I 'think' I wouldn't have even blinked. I won't even get into what I 'think' about the plot and the various devices used to move it along. It was poor story telling and the more I 'think' about it, the more I want to lower my initial rating of 6/10. I also 'think' the Hulk was a better serious/emotional/character driven comic book movie.

I amazed at the box office numbers and salute it for that, but I 'think' the bottom will drop out pretty fast.

That's a lot of 'thinking' for a summer popcorn movie but I do 'know' that I didn't see the reported budget up on the screen.

 

[Brent M]

By george, I "think" he's got it.

 

[Chad R]

As are you, but you haven't really defended yours very well. Dramatically, the film did fail on many levels. As you seem to be most interested in the thematic "message" of the film, that fails as well.

"Preaching" to your audience is not going to endow them with your point of view very well. You have to show them why acting this way is the best way to behave. It's the basis of all storytelling, show don't tell. Since the film doesn't show a complete backstory or complete present story to the Flint Marko character, it just tells you that forgiveness is important, than it doesn't earn its theme.

The fact remains that Sandman isn't presented as a down-on-his-luck guy who has no recourse but to break the law. It doesn't clue the audience in to why he felt theft was the only way to save his daughter. There are many avenues one can take to save a child. The child did have an oxygen tank which indicates she was getting some treatment. Also, since he disease is never named, there's no way for the audience to even know if it's curable. And, as I said before, we don't know which came first; the law-breaking or the sick child. His wife treats him like he's hurt the family, not like a desperate man who only did what he did for the sake of their child. This is the only clue they give us, and it looks like he's a bad guy who's using the excuse of his sick child to justify his robberies.

Since we don't know these elements of Marko's backstory we, as an audience, cannot make an informed decision as to his moral character. All we've seen him do is break the law, attack innocent people and disregard the safety of the public.

These holes in the narrative therefore undermine any thematic thesis Raimi might have been trying to build. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree that forgiveness is a wonderful theme -- but, storytellers have to earn their themes. Raimi didn't earn his.

 

[Josh.C]

I'm not sure who is the worst casting job:

Michael Gambon as Professor Dumbledore in HP
or
Whoever that goon was that played Harry's Butler


What an incredibly HORRIBLE job! Every seen with the butler seemed awkward and out of place.

JC

 

[Paul_Scott]

haven't seen the movie but it sounds like Flint Marko SHOULD have been the first character that spidey encounters that was just out and out rotten. Then Peter, based on his past experience with people that weren't neccessarily responsible (or in control) for their evil acts, would have been predisposed to trying to engage or subdue him with an eye towards a rehabilitative agenda.
Then Marko thru the course of the film could have steadily escalated in the severity of his crimes, until Peter had to make a choice to use lethal force or let him kill dozens of others. Its not really a 'message' that I personally cheer about, but at least its fully formed, and not a mawkish, sentimental cop-out.
But then, going back and watching bits from the first film again, the main story that needed to be told in the last film was Peter vs Harry. Everything else should have been clearly subverted to that, and the hoary device of giving the guy amnesia for an act or two to 'reset' the story so they can develop other subplots just screams "Hack!"

 

[DavidPla]

He's the father of Bill Paxton.

 

[Holadem]

I liked it a lot.

I will freely admit I am severely biased toward these movies, they are heavy handed and at times cliche in ways I would have found intolerable in others. To give you a frame of reference, I probably enjoyed S3 better than Batman Begins, an undeniably better film. My connection to the characters here is simply stronger, and makes for the greater emotional involvement.

Back to S3, in a nutshell, I found it's faults to be not much worse than those of S1 & S2's.

Geez man, I trust you guys opinions for this sort of movies, but much like X3, I am glad I made my way to the theaters despite largely negative opinions around here! I am done with you guys, time to go rent The Hulk and The Fantastic Four...

--
H

 

[CoreyII]

Actually, according to the Sam Raimi movie, it's a genetically engineered super-spider. Sorry Travis, but I couldn't resist. .

 

[Chris Atkins]

I can definitely see where you are coming from, H. It was the same with me and the SW PT...my connection to the characters, simply based on their connection to the OT story, drove my love for those films.

 

[JonZ]

"I am done with you guys, time to go rent The Hulk and The Fantastic Four"


Holadem! NOOOO not the Fantastic Four!!!


Holadem,
You wrote:
"Geez man, I trust you guys opinions for this sort of movies, but much like X3, I am glad I made my way to the theaters despite largely negative opinions around here!"

I think this is best addressed by this quote from the previous page from Edwin

"The Spiderman of the comics would have never let the Sandman get away with a crime spree, no matter how many tears were spilled. S3 actually depicts a major moral failure on the part of Spidey. It is an occurence that would have never happened in the comics and I believer that moral failure is partially why so many people have negative feelings toward the movie: especially fans of the character."


I can see that someone walking into the theater watching the movie, without the comic book baggage can often find these more enjoyable. And using your example of X3 and one of the biggest problems...the treatment of Cyclops. If you were a fan of the older comics you might view his fate completely differently. Im not even really a fan of the character but his treatment in that film is a disgrace. He is the most important Xman. The character has a place, purpose and importance and to see it disregarded to put more focus on Wolverine is really completely lazy, disrespectful and just plain stupid (and a major reason alone for negative reaction to the film. My brother almost walked out of the theater when he saw Cyke get zapped.)

You comment made me consider that in a way I hadent before, concerning nonfans walking into these movies and how they can find them enjoyable based on whats on the screen alone.




"haven't seen the movie but it sounds like Flint Marko SHOULD have been the first character that spidey encounters that was just out and out rotten"

I have a feeling were going to see Electro in SM5. And hes definitely the type to ooze badness and bask in it. Maybe Tim Roth can be pursuaded to take the job.

 

[Simon Massey]

This was perhaps my biggest problem with the film especially since the foundations of the story had already been laid in the previous 2 films. I was struggling with the film up to the first battle between Harry and Peter (the editing of this film just didnt seem right and was most noticeable when they were intercutting a pivotal moment for Harry as he is rushed to hospital with a rushed introduction to Marko) but once he got amnesia the film just seemed to go downhill from there.

Focusing on Harry and Peter with just the Sandman included would still have allowed Raimi to focus on a theme of "forgiveness" and also give room for the characters to breathe a little.

 

[TravisR]

I agree 100%. And my advice is to check out Fantastic Four (it's not going to win an Oscar but it's a fun time) but steer clear of The Hulk.

 

[Holadem]

More:

I really liked the composer's liberal use of various segments of the Spider-Man theme throghout the movie. I did think the epic swinging theme (with the choir) came in too early, that's the sort of stuff which works best later in this story. Bringing it out so early sorta dillutes it. But I am a fanatic of the opening theme, it gets nearly daily play on my MP3 player.

The opening credits music was messed around with entirely too much for my taste. It was disjointed and lacked the nice progression of the previous movie's. The visuals were neat.

The coda was incredibly touching, but I still think they could have shoehorned in the signature last swinging sequence. Forgive this bit of armchair direction, but imagine a pull back out of the club and over city as the romantic music transitions into something more heroic and night turns into day. Take it from there.

--
H

 

[Tino]

And I suggest the exact opposite

 

[Andy Sheets]

I was watching Fantastic Four on cable over the weekend, wondering if maybe I'd been too harsh-minded toward the film when I first saw it. Nope, it's just a lame movie.

 

[TravisR]

In all fairness, I've only seen The Hulk once and thought it was dull as dishwater but I know that the movie does have a fanbase. Like I said though, I don't think Fantastic Four is some brilliant movie (and most people definitely didn't like it) but at least they had some fun with the movie. As always, the best idea is to see it yourself and decide.

Sorry to go off topic.