"South Pacific" Disc of the year? (1 Viewer)

[OliverK]

And Patton did even get a new 4k scan and still ended up looking like it does :frowning:

What is nice to see is that those of us who predicted Patton and TLD to be an isolated incident with Fox were fortunately right - all other classic titles from them looked much better and it seems like South Pacific is their most stunningly looking title so far but I will reserve judgement until I can see it in motion and not just a few screencaps.

 

[MatthewA]

Unfortunately Gigi reveals the limitations of Metrocolor's printing. Yet it's still better than the DVD. It will never look as good as a 70mm source.

 

[willyTass]

GIGI for red push of the year award !

 

[Sebastian1972]

“GiGi” is a problematic film that will need extensive restoration. It’s not the limitation of Metrocolor printing but a common color fading issue that is a big problem of Eastman Kodak color motion picture film of that era. The available source materials for the latest video incarnation are not in very good condition but they did as good as they could (and as their budget allows) with the latest blu-ray & DVD edition.

 

[Ethan Riley]

Why does everyone make it sound like I'm pissed off at this release? I simply implied that considering the fact that the short version already looked stunning on the old dvd that it probably wasn't that big of a leap to make it look great on BR. I wasn't talking about the miracle of 8K scanning or the technology of 2009. I was talking about the fact that it already looked good. Then I said that if they really wanted to get my attention they'd have to be innovative so far as to try and re-colorize the ghastly deleted footage from the Roadshow version. I didn't say it would be a snap; I know very well that it would be a lot of work and very expensive. Don't make me a villain--when I hate a dvd, I certainly have no qualms about making my feelings heard.

Now the real test for them is Oklahoma. That show looked crummy (both versions) on the latest dvds. I have those and the original dvd from circa 2000. Upconverting just seems to worsen the problem. Now if they can make both Oklahomas look good on BR then we're in business.

 

[Sebastian1972]

Ethan, you are passionate and I can understand that. Now, let me tell you this, the reason why the theatrical version of South Pacific now looks stunning is because it got a full restoration some years ago. The original 65mm elements including a set of 65mm YCM color separation masters made right after the film was developed back in 1958 survived so in this case, the film is rather lucky. However, the roadshow version’s original elements did not survive because they all had been destroyed and discarded once the film was cut and trimmed down to its theatrical (shorter) version. The only known surviving materials of the roadshow version is a severely fade Eastman print of the film belong to a film collector and that's the source and basis of the roadshow version that you can see on DVD. At this point there is no known technology to revive this badly fade roadshow print but who knows it may be possible in the future. By the way, you can read the article regarding the restoration of theatrical version of South Pacific at the following link: "South Pacific"

 

[FranklinC]

Don't think anybody answered this yet...

If memory serves there are only two or three numbers that have the color filtering. Not every number has it. So, it's not a big percentage (10%, maybe?).

I've heard a lot of people trashing the use of it, but I like it. I think it adds to the appeal in a kooky way.

 

[Greg_M]

The color filters were used mostly during some of the songs and for the night sequences (which are a shade of blue). They were used mostly to cover the bad weather, cover the day for night shots and to create a mood.

Some (like "Bali Hai") work very well (though some times they are to dark and yellow and some were over processed in the lab "Happy Talk"). I like them, when they are presented properly - though on tv they usually aren't. See the film in 70MM if you can. The filters for "Some Enchanted Evening" are my favorite as they cast a golden glow over the screen and lend greatly to the mood of the song.

Also if you watched the extended roadshow version in a theater there are no filters - everything is pink - of course this becomes quite tedious after a while.

 

[MatthewA]

The roadshow version is all we have of how the film was on opening day, barring some miraculous discovery in a vault. My reservations about it (from what I know) are that they couldn't present the soundtrack lossless here, too. (Dumping the Barrios commentary that no one liked may have freed up enough space...) I saw the 70mm roadshow print and you could see pale swooshes where the movement of filters used to be. Fox did their best, but you cannot restore color info that does not exist. The tragedy of 70mm prints is that no dye-transfer printing process for this format was ever made. If a properly timed 35mm IB Tech print was a Mercedes, a good 70mm IB, had they ever been made, would have been a Rolls-Royce.


South Pacific has been restored (and it came first on BD because of its 50th anniversary last year and the current Broadway revival, unusual as most R&H movie reissues since 1990 have been tied to the latest Sound of Music multiple-of-five anniversary), but Oklahoma! needs to be restored (at least the Todd-AO version, anyway), but I imagine they wanted it out for its 50th anniversary (along with the 40th of Sound of Music and 60th of State Fair 1945). I saw this film twice in 70mm; they were 1983 LPP reprints, and except for a small portion of "Many a New Day" they looked yellowish throughout. I imagine this film will get the attention it needs and deserves. Fox and the R&H Organization would not let a landmark film perish, not even in this economy.

 

[Joe Caps]

The FotoKen article says the roadshow came frp, am archive in England.

Not true. It came from a private collector who had bought up random cuts from the filmover the year and inserted the scenes inhis no-roadshow 70mm print. thus, there are scenes from the preview version in this print. Still missing from the Roadshow version is the reprise of BaliHai sung byJohn Kerr as he takes a boat to Bali Hai. Richard Barrios, in his commentary, says it was never filmed. That is one of many incorrect things in his commnetary track.
If yu have the dvd - Rodgers and hammerstein, teh Sound of Movies - remastered edition, it has trailers from all of the R and H films and there is an originl trailer from south Pacific (Not the one on the current dvd) and in the trailer you can HEAR the reprise of Bali Hai on the soundtrack).
BTW, Fox spent well over a year working on the print of the Roadshow version. IN the opening scenes with the seabees and Bloody Mary, the print was nothing but Pink. thats not the case with the dvd version.
Luckily, when the scens with the color filters enter, they made the restored footage all of the same color.

My big question - I do not have bluray and I am told there is a feature length doc on the making of the film - what does it show?

 

[Mike_Richardson]

That's because the Roadshow version IS in standard-def. I can't believe DVD Beaver nor Fox's own packaging point this out -- there's no lossless audio, just 5.1/4.0 DD. It's very clearly not in HD....the trailer is, and it looks like her screen test is, but the Roadshow version (and most everything else on the 2nd disc) isn't.

 

[MatthewA]

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.

Seriously, can a 50GB BD not fit a 171 minute version of a film in HD, and that amount of standard def extras?

 

[Ethan Riley]

So...you're saying that the Roadshow is standard def...on a BluRay disc??

 

[OliverK]

OK, I just checked the Beaver review and indeed they have only two extras marked as HD which I guess means the rest is not in HD.

As long as the roadshow version is included as an SD extra there and no claim is made to the contrary I guess there is nothing we can do about it.

I would like to know about the reasoning though (if there was one) behind not restoring the roadshow footage. While perfection might not have been attained I should think that rather satisfactory results could have been possible, as in fact the same approach is planned for the restoration of The Alamo. In the end it might have been that this disc was produced on a budget to some extent and it was decided just to go with a new scan of the existing 65mm IP of the theatrical version.

 

[Mike_Richardson]

Yeah, sadly guys, that's exactly what I'm saying. I put the disc in and had the same reaction -- "hey it looks like SD." In my eyes, it's definitely an upconvert on a BD disc, and looks indistinguishable from the DVD (which I put on afterwards). The only thing I've seen that looks like it is the BD import of ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK, and this doesn't even have the detail of that.

If you look at the back packaging, Fox has this little "some special features may be in standard definition" disclaimer, and since the Roadshow version is listed as a "special feature," I guess that's how they get away with it. Frankly I think it's completely dishonest. There should have been a clear indication that the Roadshow version isn't in HD. They list the running time for BOTH versions in the back cover "grid" but there's nothing to tell you that the Roadshow version doesn't have DTS Master Audio, or isn't encoded in AVC, etc.

IMO that's a poor job by Fox.

 

[MatthewA]

If space was an issue there was a perfect way around it...

Seamless branching. Seriously, it's like these studios don't even know it exists.

For those of us who wanted to see this title restored to its original length, got to see it, but now have it with an SD version only when a shortened version in glorious HD with DTS-MA, this is a bit of a let down.

 

[Dave Moritz]

Since Bluray came out on the scene I am now adding classic titles in HD to my movie collection. I can not wait to own South Pacific on Bluray and hope that other great classics follow this year.

 

[Virgoan]

I can only say I am BITTERLY disappointed with this news.

The "theatrical version" is basically a MAIMED print of the original roadshow version. I never fully appreciated "South Pacific" until last year's SD DVD release showed me all the footage (and glorious music -- and there was a wealth of music in that restored 15 minutes).

And since they couldn't even bother to upgrade the soundtrack on the roadshow version to DTS, my order for the Blu-ray disc is hereby cancelled.

 

[Joe Caps]

You can not do seamless branching of the long and short version of south Pacific, When the film was cut, it was also redubbed with recut music to fit the new short film.

 

[MatthewA]

What percentage of music was recut in the short version? I know that there's an extra chorus of Bloody Mary, reprise of Bali Hai sung by Luther, an extension of the reprise of Some Enchanted Evening between "Wash That Man..." and "Wonderful Guy" Couldn't they just duplicate the scenes if there weren't too many (14 minutes of roadshow-only scenes + x minutes of repetitive pictures with different audio), or would they not fit without compromising picture quality?

Those rumored greater-than-50GB BDs can't come soon enough. Maybe in time for the 55th anniversary. :frowning:

On the other hand, it's not technically worse than the DVD. You lose nothing. Unfortunately, it is not yet possible to upconvert 480p BD material on any player. Fox could have at least said the Roadshow Version was in SD.

I just hope they don't flip a coin as to which version of Oklahoma! is actually in 1080p.