Sony WEGA television question. (1 Viewer)

[JasonRH]

Lee,
As I mentioned, I've read of people who have had the coil replaced and had little to no improvement in the problem. The new sets probably do have the new coil but that must not be enough in many cases to adequately fix the problem. I think it was the L504 coil that was replaced if it didn't meet a certain spec.

 

[Tony Peck]

Lee,
I've been reading topics in this forum (sorted on keyword "Wega") for a long time, but this reply is my first post.
I've recently adjusted my KV32FS12 color and tint with only only one gun at a time on rather than using the plastic filters supplied with the Avia disc. Turning the guns on and off can be accomplished in the service menu by setting the variables BON,RON and GON to 1 or 0 (on or off). Just be sure to always leave at least one of the three on, otherwise the screen will go dark and you won't be able to read anything.
Before you attempt adjusting color saturation, I would recommend setting the AXNT parameter to 0 (default is 1). This should eliminate any red push and allow you to come much closer to matching the background to 0% on the Avia color decoder screen (for each of the three guns). Before setting AXNT to 0, my set exhibited 25% red push when adjusted correctly for blue. This meant that I had to reduce overall color saturation to temper the red (sunburn effect). Now all three match in saturation and track together when I raise or lower the color setting. In other words, when adjusted correctly (0%) for blue, the color decoder pattern indicates 0% for the red and green as well.
You'll be amazed at how much better a movie with vivid and distinct colors, like Toy Story 2, will look.

 

[Lee-c]

Tony,
Thanks very much for the response.
That's exactly the sort of info. I was wondering about. It just occurred to me what that
little envelope in the Avia case is for. It must have the filters to test the colors, of course!
But I'll make note of those settings you mention, I may give that a try. Is it easy to navigate
the service menu and find these options? Also, is there a way to reset the service menu
settings to default if I goof up something accidentally?
This AXNT setting controls the infamous "red push" effect, eh? So the AXNT setting should
always be set to off, correct? Then one can adjust the colors much more ideally?
If I turn off the AXNT setting, then red push has been completely eliminated on my Wega?
Thanks for any further info. you may be able to provide.
I should note that we really like the new Wega, the picture is excellent (have to love that
flat screen, too ). All I have to do now, as far as basic adjustments go, is tune
the color a little better. You've helped me with that part. Thanks.

 

[JasonRH]

Tony,
I don't understand exactly what you did. I understand about turning off the guns to set saturation level, but did you only set saturation and hue in the user menu via the remote or did you adjust other variables in the service menu besides the gun controls?? If not, why would that accomplish anything more than using the filters would. Sorry, if I missed the point.

 

[Tony Peck]

Lee,
The service menu is easy to navigate, and you can always turn the power off and back on again to return to the original settings if you haven't performed a save while in the menu. I would recommend tweaking only those parameters you are familiar with, however, as there are some that affect scan rate, filtering and OEM configuration IDs.
Service menu access is well documented in other posts on this forum, but here's a brief review (at least for the KV32FS12):
With the power off, point the remote at the TV and press - [DISP] [5] [VOL+] [PWR ON] in succession, all within 5 seconds.
The TV will turn on and the service menu should be displayed (green text). If it is not, press the [MENU] button on the remote. This button will now toggle between the service menu and the standard menu.
To navigate in the service menu use the following keys :
[1] Moves to next menu item
[4] Moves to previous menu item
[2] Jumps to next menu group
[5] Jumps to previous menu group
[3] Adjusts value up
[6] Adjusts Value Down
[MUTE] [ENTER] Saves settings to memory
The KV32FS12 has eight sequential menu groups (deflc, video, cfilt, 3dcf, pip, audio, micro, id's). Pressing [2] or [5] will bring you to the top of the next/previous group. If you get to the end of a menu group and press [1] it will also go to the top of the next group, and [4] will get you back to the bottom of the previous, etc. Once you have made changes and are happy, pressing [MUTE] will display the word "WRITE" and then pressing [ENTER] will change the color of the word and the new settings will be saved. If you want to cancel your changes, just turn the power off and it will reset to what it was when you started.
If you plan to fiddle with a bunch of parameters I would take the time to record all the default settings (in a spreadsheet or something) just in case you save something you didn't want to. You can buy a service manual from Sony ($17) that defines many of the parameters.
AXNT is not a "red push" parameter per se, it is some sort of NTSC color bias that OEMs apply apparently to make cable TV color signals look more uniform (There is also one for the European PAL standard, AXPL). The primary effect of this bias is what people label as "red push", because it tends to oversaturate red with respect to the two other primary colors. Unfortunately this bias is applied to all the video inputs (even component, which is what I use), so setting the AXNT parameter to 0 reduces the relative magnitude of red with respect to blue and green. In my case it was just enough to bring them all to the same % level according to the AVIA color decoder pattern.
So, there you have all the techno-babble. For a real world comparison, adjust the color with the blue bar pattern before setting the AXNT parameter to 0 and watch the tent scene from "Gladiator" (right after the first battle). It is lit mostly by torches and fire, so it is reddish orange to begin with. Now fix AXNT, readjust the color and watch it again. You should see a HUGE difference in skin tones and a lot less ambient red througout the scene.
Give yourself a few days to get used to any new settings, and judge improvements based on DVDs only (reserve one of the picture modes for DVD and set the others from there for cable, DBS, etc). Most importantly, enjoy the TV. You can drive yourself mad tweaking everything to the Nth degree. Beleive me, I've tried...

 

[Tony Peck]

Jason,
Turning off the guns and setting / checking to the bar patterns by toggling back to the standard menu is simply easier than holding up the little plastic rectangles. I have checked it both ways, and there is only a difference of one color scale increment (at least on my set, with my rectangles). If you trust the manufacturer of the color rectangles to be accurate, then there is no need to use the service menu for this adjustment. I still, however, highly recommend setting the AXNT parameter to 0 to reduce red push.
If you have the right equipment, the RDRV, GDRV, BDRV, RCUT, GCUT and BCUT parameters can also be adjusted to calibrate the grayscale level to NTSC 6500K through the IRE range. You can hire someone from the Imagining Science Foundation to perform this cal for you, but it is expensive and extreme, especially for a $1000 TV.

 

[JasonRH]

Tony,
Thanks for the explanation. That clears it up.

 

[Lee-c]

Tony, thanks for the detailed info. It will be fun to see how much better things look
with the red push effect eliminated.

 

[Lee-c]

Here's an update on my color adjustments.
First off, I found, to my surprise, that the AXNT (red push) setting in the service menu
was already set to "0", so I didn't have to change anything in the service menu and just
hit the power button to turn the Wega off without saving any changes (not that I had made any,
but I didn't want to take any chances) in the service menu.
So I then went to the color bars to set blue correctly, I found I needed very little
adjustment to get the blue patches to stop flashing and match the bars in blue brightness.
Now comes the not so good part. Even though I had set the saturation and hue correctly to
make the blue patches stop flashing, I noticed in the color test pattern that I was getting
perhaps -20% on the blue scale saturation test pattern and red was perhaps +15%, so I reduced
the saturation to get the red down. I was able to get the red levels down to between 0 and +5%.
But that made blue -25% and green is at about -20%. Changing hue to get red down is not
recommended in Avia and didn't seem to change the blue levels much anyhow, so I left the
hue where I had set it to minimize the blue flashing patches. The only way to get the
0% blue to match the background would require turning up saturation up so much that red
would end up being at least +20% if not +25%.
I'm quite annoyed about not being able to get all the colors closer to zero without
causing any imbalances. But since the thinking on this is that over emphasized red is
especially undesirable, I thought it best to sacrifice the blue and green saturation in order
to keep the red levels to almost 0%.
What do you guys think? Is a -20% green and -25% blue acceptable in order to keep red so
low (very near 0% )? Keep in mind that my goal here is to make DVD movies look as close to
what the director intends the scenes to look like as possible.
Any thoughts are much appreciated.

 

[Lee-c]

Any opinions at all on this color issue?

 

[JasonRH]

Lee,
The main problem with that color decoder check is that it is so subjective. In your case the values are skewed enough that it seems likely you are seeing a fair amount of color imbalance though. Those numbers seem much too far off to me. By having to set the blue bar, and thus, overall saturation level so low, you are undersaturating everything. A red push of 10% would not be bad if you want to increase saturation a bit. Maybe you should go back into the service menu and adjust AXNT to another value. I thought i had to set it on 1 when I had my Wega, not 0, but i may be mistaken. It wouldn't hurt to give it a try. Good luck.

 

[Lee-c]

Jason, thanks for the ideas.
I changed the AXNT setting to 1, hoping that would turn off any red push effect I might be
seeing on the screen. But I saw no dramatic drop in red on the color scale, so I returned
it to the 0 setting and adjusted the blue as best I could in Avia.
I then turned up saturation a couple notches to try to get the blue up a little. I ended up
with a red about +10, green -10, blue -20. And that seems to be about as close to ideal as
I can get it.
I had a thought, what are the chances that a direct view set like this might have it's gray
scale off enough to be causing this problem? It's my understanding (from ISF discussions
here on the forum) that gray scale has to be right for the colors to be right. Could the
gray scale be skewing the results I'm seeing on the blue color chart?
Opinions are welcome.

 

[Marty Neudel]

This appears to be a problem in high-end Trinitron systems that goes back a dozen years, or so. I first became aware of it on the ID series of digitally enhanced sets. At least, they've moved the problem from the center of the screen.
Nonetheless, I love the overall picture on my 27kv17.
Marty
[Edited last by Marty Neudel on November 17, 2001 at 01:46 AM]

 

[JasonRH]

Lee
It just occurred to me that it may very will be the AXIS variable that has to be changed. Try that.

 

[JasonRH]

Oops. The model you have may not have that (the XBR does, though). AXPL is another one that may do something. Other than those I think you have no options, except a professional calibration,that is

 

[Lee-c]

Thanks for the info., Jason. The FV27 doesn't have the AXIS variable. Guess that is a setting
used on XBR's only.
Unless we get the grayscale ISF'ed, this may be as close as the colors get. Still, it looks
great and as the t.v. breaks in, perhaps the color will get a tad better (not sure if that ever
happens).

 

[Dave Connoy]

Lee: I have a 32FV16 (it's a little older, but probably basically the same thing. Looking over the little spreadsheet of service menu changes I did back when I was tweaking it, I changed both AXPL and AXNT from 0 to 1 to get correct color decoding. If you haven't tried it already, maybe this will work for you.

 

[Dave Connoy]

Sigh. My apologies to everyone for reviving this ages-old thread. I mistook the "Local Date and Time" field in the message listing for the date and time of the actual post.

 

[JasonRH]

Dave,
No problem, I think I've done that in the past as well

 

[Tony Peck]

Dave,
I actually dug up this old thread also and put it in a link yesterday regarding service codes for the new FS100 model:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...hreadid=115631
I have the KV32FS12 (same model year as your KV36FV16) and after setting up the new KV32FS100 I can tell you that Sony has gotten much better with their factory settings. There was no red push, color bleeding, dark bands or major geometry issues (all of which required hours of tweaking on my set to reduce or eliminate). Plus, the new sets have separate aspect ratio variables for adjusting 4:3 and 16:9 modes . This is all quite frustrating considering I spent $950 on my set and my brother-in-law paid only $599...
BTW, how's the geometry on your set? This is the only issue I can't seem resolve to my satisfaction. I still have a horizontal bowing problem ~1/8" up/down in the upper right quadrant and the crosshatch box widths at the far left and right edges of the screen are approx 1/8" wider than those in the center (AVIA crosshatch pattern). Any suggestions?