Sony to start using Dolby True HD on Blu-ray...

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by DaViD Boulet, Mar 16, 2007.

  1. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    3
    Nothing 100% conclusive... but Paidgeek, a Sony insider who posts at AVS, indicates that Sony may start to use Dolby True HD for lossless encoding on future Blu-ray titles:

    http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10040688

    Also note that there's a chance of moving to great-than-16-bit resolution in the process. The first Dolby True HD track will probably be 20-bit.


     
  2. Jeff Adkins

    Jeff Adkins Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 1998
    Messages:
    1,771
    Likes Received:
    15
    Real Name:
    Jeff Adkins

    Interesting, although I don't care which format is used, the 20-bit info makes me happy. PCM, DTS-MA, or DTHD are all fine with me.
     
  3. Jean D

    Jean D Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2004
    Messages:
    1,329
    Likes Received:
    0
    I wonder if this ties in with their 3 year plan to make Blu-ray the new DVD standard.

    Here is the article
     
  4. ppltd

    ppltd Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,044
    Likes Received:
    0

    Now it would be nice if one of the players could actually decode it so I could replace my Samsung
     
  5. ppltd

    ppltd Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,044
    Likes Received:
    0
    Go figure. The Blu-Ray disk association says the BD will be the new DVD standard.[​IMG]
     
  6. Shawn Perron

    Shawn Perron Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    500
    Likes Received:
    0

    The PS3, which is by far the most commonly owned Blu-Ray playback device, has supported TruHD from day 1.
     
  7. Paul Hillenbrand

    Paul Hillenbrand Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 1998
    Messages:
    1,523
    Likes Received:
    271
    Real Name:
    Paul Hillenbrand
    This should definitely be clarified.[​IMG]

    What consumer equipment brands would he be referring too?

    i.e. Would this include most "consumer equipment" with HDMI interface connections?

    Paul
     
  8. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    3
    Paul,

    don't pay much attention to his remarks about 18-bit limits in consumer gear. that's more a "theory" based on noise-floor of most consumer electronics... that the noise floor of most gear equates to the noise floor of a 16-bit recording.

    However, anyone with ears can tell you that noise-floors are the total word on perceived resolution. For instance, the noise-floor of an LP is about 1/2 that of a 16-bit CD. Guess which one has a mid-range that sounds more like the analog master? Yep: LP.




    Your samsung will provide you with the core Dolby Digital stream at 640 kbps while 2nd and 3rd gen BD players become available that provide full decoding at an affordable price (my PS3 already decodes Dolby True HD and both the Panny and Pioneer will be upgradable, as I believe Sony's stand-alone will as well).
     
  9. Shawn Perron

    Shawn Perron Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2002
    Messages:
    500
    Likes Received:
    0
    He's talking about the DACs and other inefficiencies in consumer electronics. Providing the receiver with greater then 18bit resolution does not automatically mean the analog output will be able to acheive this level of accuracy. There's also the question of how much dynamic range you really need in a home theater. Are most people's amplifiers and speakers capable of generating much more then 110db of sound cleanly? 120db? Much louder then that and you can permanently endanger your hearing. 24 bit audio gives us a dynamic range of 144.5db. This is plainly overkill for a home theater environment. 20bit is probably plenty for a home theater.

    All that being said, there is no reason not to provide us with 24bit audio as long as it doesn't take bits away from the main feature. If it ends up robbing bits the video could be using, I'm fine with 48/16.
     
  10. Jeff Adkins

    Jeff Adkins Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 1998
    Messages:
    1,771
    Likes Received:
    15
    Real Name:
    Jeff Adkins

    I agree. I don't see any reason to go higher than 20bit, however if there's enough space than why not. Any of these scenarios (even 16 bit) is preferable to what Warner is releasing.
     
  11. ppltd

    ppltd Producer

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,044
    Likes Received:
    0

    Yep, my Sammy should decode the core. I don't have any BD TrueHD disks to test it out. . The PS3 and Sony Stand alones don't interest me (I am absolutly not a Sony lover[​IMG] ), but I just read an article on Panasonics second gen unit and it looks interesting. Probably the way I will go.
     
  12. Ben_Williams

    Ben_Williams Second Unit

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think it is really cool that Sony will be giving us two lossless tracks to compare on this release. Fodder for the debate on which lossless format sounds the best... in theory, they should sound the same. I guess we'll have the chance to decide with our own ears!
     
  13. AlexBC

    AlexBC Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 1, 2003
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ben, they are using different sampling rates

    Since they are going the lossless compressed way, I wish they chose the FOX way, DTS-HD MA @ full 48/24.

    I really don't like the idea of dial norm and other 'features' on the Dolby encoder. Furthermore DTS-HD MA @ full 48/24 takes less space than DTHD and the core track for legacy users comes with higher bitrate than de 640 kbps DD.
     
  14. Ben_Williams

    Ben_Williams Second Unit

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    0

    Alex,

    All of that is true, but I still think it will be interesting to hear the difference. Will there be a perceptible one? Also, DTS-MA would be preferred for me as well, but there still isn't a BD player that can decode this format. So, with TrueHD being available in the PS3 and the Panny in a matter of weeks, I can see why they made this choice.
     
  15. DaViD Boulet

    DaViD Boulet Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 1999
    Messages:
    8,800
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ben,

    even two LPCM tracks would sound different if one was 16 and one was 20 bit. I wish that Sony would do both at 20-bit resolution (or 24) to make it an apples-apples comparison.



    I'm with you. Dialog normalization always bugs me on DD on DVD because of the additional DSP it forces onto the signal. I also like the sound of core DTS at 1500 over core DD at 640, so I prefer DTS-MA as the lossless route given the better sound for legacy core listeners as well as the potentially better sound for lossless-decoding listeners in the future given the avoidance of "features" like dialog-normalization that engineers seem convinced they have to put on Dolby tracks. I have a feeling a lot of these practices with Dolby are because of the default-settings in the encoding software and likely aren't often intentions of the audio engineer preparing the mix.
     
  16. Dave Moritz

    Dave Moritz Producer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Messages:
    5,321
    Likes Received:
    446
    Location:
    California
    Real Name:
    Dave Moritz

    I agree!

    While I have been impressed with Dolby True HD on HD-DVD. I would rather stick with the use of DTS-HD Master Audio. We allready have a choice between PCM and DTS Master Audio for lossless. The introduction of Dolby True HD with there low bitrate DD core is not a step in the right direction IMHO. Hell at that rate Sony might as well start introducing SDDS to home video. [​IMG]

    What I would like to know is if Dolby True HD ends up being used on Blu-ray titles. Will PCM still be used or will it end up being Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio? Or will we see we have a posibility of any of the three lossless formats being used for Blu-ray? Dolby must have busted its but with Sony to get them to get them to use there product. To date there is only a small group of titles that actually use Dolby True HD. While at the same time there is a growing DTS Master Audio catalog growing. There is also more PCM offerings than Dolby True HD and that gap is also widening. At this point no stand alone Blu-ray players decode ether DTS-MA or Dolby THD. I would really like to know when the blu-ray players are going to actually decode the full lossless DTS and Dolby tracks? Due to tight finances saving for the updates in my HT. I most of my HD titles I purchase ether have PCM or DTS-HD Master Audio. So unless the title is a must have I do not see myself buying to many Dolby True HD titles. I might buy them for HD-DVD but there is also a lack of DTS-HD for HD-DVD as well.
     
  17. PeterTHX

    PeterTHX Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2002
    Messages:
    2,034
    Likes Received:
    0
    Interesting anyone would prefer DTS-MA when they can't figure out how to get decoders into consumers hands.

    Anyone complaining about dialnorm needs to take it up with the studios. Thus far no THD track has suffered from it.
     
  18. MarekM

    MarekM Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2006
    Messages:
    858
    Likes Received:
    0
    for now I would be really happy if on disc will be any of those 3 tracks :

    PCM
    DTS HD MA
    DolbyTrueHD

    of course 48/24bit.....

    ON EACH RELEASE !!! old, new, any release, if there is such track avaible, put it there, and no such excuses like Universal, that DD+1.5mbit is transparent,or they don't see much improvement with DolbyTrueHD, sure it is for them......, I think I was one of those very disspointed with missing DolbyTrueHD on KK or fast and furious....., even if DD+ are great on those disc, one can only imagine what it can be with DolbyTrueHD tracks...

    due decoding nightmare at present, I prefer PCM all the way, then due amount of PS3s as second DolbyTrueHD at this momnet, but after upgrade od DTS HD MA decoding in PS3, I will prefer DTS HD MA

    Marek
     
  19. Tim Glover

    Tim Glover Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 1999
    Messages:
    7,996
    Likes Received:
    260
    Location:
    Monroe, LA
    Real Name:
    Tim Glover
    I only have HD DVD but the TrueHD tracks for Batman Begins, Superman Returns, and Harry Potter all sound rather fabulous. No apologies. [​IMG]

    I'm sure the DTS equivalent would and does sound fantastic as well.

    Good for Sony, but better for BD buyers getting Dolby TrueHD. [​IMG]
     
  20. Jeff Adkins

    Jeff Adkins Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 1998
    Messages:
    1,771
    Likes Received:
    15
    Real Name:
    Jeff Adkins

    Peter,

    When asked why the PCM track on The Departed sounded slightly better than the THD track, Amir from AVS confirmed that the THD track had dialogue normalization processing prior to the encode.
     

Share This Page