Song of the South (1 Viewer)

[george kaplan]

Spoiler:Well, MASH has a black character named Spearchucker and there's no protest and Fox is going to release that dvd, so how anyone could be upset by the tar baby sequence is beyond me. If this is the case, Disney is being overly paranoid.
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13-time NBA world champion Lakers: 1949, 1950, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1972, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988, 2000, 2001

 

[Bob_L]

Forget about it, Jake. It's DisneyTown.
I own the LD and saw the movie during the rerelease in the '80s. Baskett's performance is one of the most touching and engaging performances ever captured on film. It's heartbreaking that this wonderful actor wasn't seen more often on film. And, really, only SotS truly captures his magnetism and talent.
Frankly, I think SotS is a pretty enlightened film. Despite the fact that it's a Disney product, it doesn't glamorize the slave experience IMHO. The places the slaves live in are unforgivable dumps; put into even greater relief by the lavish digs of the whites and their often superior attitude. I can't imagine anyone watching this movie and thinking Southern slavery was quaint or charming.
No matter. I don't think there is any chance of this film being released in this country for DECADES. Sad to say, I think Disney is right for taking this position. Better to hide a good film than to step into the firestorm of criticism from narrow-minded, thought-controlling, individuals and organizations who promote censorship under the guise of open-minded, social enlightenment.

 

[Duane M Davis]

MASH isn't a children's film.
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"Would you like to play spider with me?" ~Spider Baby

 

[Rollie]

It's funny how the members of this forum can provide excellent ideas and insight into this film's historical importance, and furthermore provide a viable way for a DVD's content to be explained to a younger generation (via the introduction), yet the people at Disney who would actually profit by this movie's distribution cannot conceive of these ideas.
I just think it's sad that Disney, chooses to ignore history in hope that it will just be forgotten. That seems like a very ignorant way of thinking.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

I thought that the problem with the animated sequences was the exaggerated black dialect that was used. I remember hearing a rumour at one time that Disney was going to re-dub those characters with more "acceptable" voices. That would ruin the film for me though.
Jeff

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

quote: I thought that the problem with the animated sequences was the exaggerated black dialect that was used.[/quote]Changing this would almost certainly be a disaster. The voices match the characters, and they are, for the record, a rabbit, a fox, and a bear, so I'm not sure who would be offended by their speech patterns. As expressed by an earlier poster, the single most troubling thing about this movie would be if Disney returned the expression "tar baby" into the modern childhood vernacular. Other than that (and it is a significant "that"), there is not really very much that anyone would find offensive. Others have cited the portrayal of black servants vis a vis the wealthy white landowners, but this dynamic is not the subject of the film. This setting would certainly make the film unappealing to a number of potential audience members with modern sensibilities (by no means limited to blacks), but I think we presume too much to say that they would be offended. I think most reasonable people would like to see the film made available, preferably in a manner that explains its context, but its not something that would logically be the subject of a major marketing push under the "magical" Disney Gold banner, so Disney is not currently equipped to handle it properly.
Regards,
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Ken McAlinden
Livonia, MI USA
[Edited last by Ken_McAlinden on August 14, 2001 at 09:05 AM]

 

[Geoffrey_A]

Honestly, I don't think SotS would insert the term "tarbaby" into the vernacular of todays youth. I saw the film when I was five (though I remember practically nothing of it) but more importantly, I had a disney book on record, entitled "Brer Rabbit and the Tar Baby" and the racial connotations were completely lost on me. I listened to that thing hundreds of times as a kid, and I've never once used the term, save only when the record was missing and I'd ask mom where it was by title. The thing about kids is, unless they've been brought up with or been exposed to racism, they aren't going to understand it. Kids see people as people, not as colours. Certainly they notice the difference in skin colour, but they don't equate this to anything negative. Racism is taught, and if SotS paints the black characters in a sympathetic and favourable light, while making the white slave owners seem dull witted for not treating them with the respect they deserve, then children are in no danger of leaving the film with racial slurs just waiting for a chance to burst out.
Just my thoughts on it.
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Geoff
Now with Kung-Fu grip and realistic facial hair!
[Edited last by Geoffrey_A on August 14, 2001 at 04:18 PM]

 

[Fred Turner]

Something we should keep in mind in this discussion is that the most popular (in terms of wait time) ride at both DisneyLand and Magic Kingdom is Splash Mountain, which tells the story of Brers Rabbit, Bear and Fox, and tells ... (wait for it!) ... THE TAR BABY STORY! Heck, it's the climax of the ride!
As far as the "exaggerated black dialect", many phrases sampled from the film are used in the ride's soundtrack, and the voice of Uncle Remus speaking and singing the songs from the film echoes throughout the ride.
It's kind of a double standard, don't you think?
Fred.

 

[george kaplan]

Fred beat me to it. But let me just add, that the Disney channel, to this day, plays some of these animated sequences!! They play old Wonderful World of Disney episodes, and there's at least one that plays these (although they're in black & white). The inconsistency of this policy is mind-boggling. And while I don't have the link, it should be pointed out that the NAACP protest is an urban rumor. Nothing is stopping Disney from releasing this except unfounded fears by some corporate VP.
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13-time NBA world champion Lakers: 1949, 1950, 1952, 1953, 1954, 1972, 1980, 1982, 1985, 1987, 1988, 2000, 2001

 

[JasonLH]

This is a fairly decent page about the Song of the South NAACP boycott urban legend. http://www.snopes2.com/disney/films/sots.htm
Cheers,
Jason

 

[Chris Bardon]

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents...
I remember seing this as a kid, and not seing any sort of "racial stereotypes" or "racist" content. I didn't go up to the black kid in my class the next day and say "hey tar baby" or something like that-it's just a movie. It's sad that more people can't just watch something like Song of the South and see it for what it is...

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

quote: What's even more amazing to me is that Ted Turner never tried to alter Gone with the Wind to make it more PC. I would have thought that if anyone was going to do it, he would be the one. [/quote]
One line of dialogue was changed for the most recent rerelease. Was that under Turner, or after?
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that the change was for no other reason but to keep the film's 'G' rating.
[Edited last by Aaron Reynolds on August 15, 2001 at 10:22 AM]

 

[Jon Robertson]

Which line was changed, Aaron? Please put it in a spoiler Is the line intact on the DVD? I would guess not...
I have the original MGM keepcase edition, but I would guess the recent Warner snapper version is 100% the same disc.
[Edited last by Jon Robertson on August 15, 2001 at 11:24 AM]

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

When I said

...the single most troubling thing about this movie would be if Disney returned the expression "tar baby" into the modern childhood vernacular

I did not mean to imply that most children would either understand or knowingly employ the term in its pejorative context. The mere fact that kids would be using the term to discuss the film narrative would be troubling and awkward, especially if it is the result of a heavily marketed mass entertainment.
I owned the same book and record set that Geoffery did as a child and own the laserdisc which I have watched with my pre-school daughter. I have no problem fielding her questions and explaining things to her, and I would expect most reasonable people to be the same way. Disney is not currently equipped to market an animated film to exclusively reasonable people. After all the crap they have taken for supposed "hidden messages" in their animated films and the way they were targeted by the Catholic League over the Miramax-financed film, Dogma, I can't blame them for being a little thin-skinned.
On a more optimistic note, I noticed that the recent ad inserts to their DVDs promoting the Walt Disney Treasures DVDs actually use the adjective "uncensored" to describe them, so that is somewhat encouraging.
Regards,
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Ken McAlinden
Livonia, MI USA

 

[Lane Denson]

As with the others here, seeing Song of the South as a child, and reading the corresponding books as well, any and all racial epithets were completely lost on me... and I grew up in the south, of all places.
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I am funkier than you

 

[streeter]

Perhaps if the Walt Disney Treasures series will be a success, this might convince Disney to release SotS! Parts of the Treasures are really marketed at the older Disney fans (I doubt there are many children who would want to watch the Davey Crockett films or the Magic Kingdom specials).

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

The line:
Spoiler:I'm a house nigger, not a field nigger
has been replaced with:
Spoiler:I'm a house worker, not a field worker
My MGM Dolby Digital LD is this way...does anyone have the older LD set or an older VHS release to check if the line is intact?

 

[Marvin]

Aaron,
Where in the movie does this line occur? Is it when Pork (Polk?) says to Scarlett "Who's gonna milk that cow Miss Scarlett? We's house workers"?
Every version of the movie I've seen has always had those words. Or is it some other scene and/or character?

 

[LarryV]

Whenever I hear Brear Fox and Brear Bear and Brear Rabbit talk in Splash Mountain, I really chuckle. Great Characters! I think ours was built around 93 or 94, hardly way back in the oppressive rascist old times of yore.
And comparing Disney drawing an erection on the Priest in The Little Mermaid to the use of the word "tar baby" back in 1946 is STRECTCHING it a little....but maybe not, Im new.
Actually, I never knew "tar baby" was a racial slur untill our friend here just pointed it out; but Im not college educated either. Damn, and the Tar Baby sequence was always my favorite, I feel like a dirty racsist now!
I did think it was a bit odd, that Disney would build the HUGE Splash Mountain rides in the 90's and still use the exaggerated slave jive for the characters; I was under the impression that to use that type of speech was considered racsist, but I mean, come on, they are funny characters...I think this film will make people laugh...black, white, red, gay, straight, ugly, pretty, smart, dumb..come on peeps! Laughter aint a bad thing!

 

[Aaron Reynolds]

That's the scene. I was under the impression that the change was for the more recent re-release of the film. Hrmm. Gotta go find my references.