So I'm going to learn piano... (1 Viewer)

[Holadem]

What cheap charlie digital would you recommend?

--
H

 

[Artur Meinild]

I believe they call them "Weighted Keys" to be exact.

Yeah, but not just weighted - as heavy-weighted as they can get!

 

[Angelo.M]

When looking at digital pianos and synthesizers, you'll come across "weighted keys" and "hammer action keys", and they're are not the same (and there are variations in quality of both types). Hammer action is closer to the feel of a real acoustic. The better the action, the pricier the keyboard. The Yamaha digitals with hammer action feel really great to me.

 

[Randy Tennison]

What cheap charlie digital would you recommend?

I'm a huge fan of the Yamaha Clavinova. Hammer action keys, great samples, lots of "bells and whistles". A couple generation old Clavinova might be a nice, inexpensive option.

If you don't mind losing the weighted keys, the PSR series of Yamaha keyboards are some of the best for the price range. There are even some 88 key models available. I still play on a 5 year old PSR, which still sounds better than most of the other keyboards out there.

 

[Jonathan Burk]

Brian,

I took piano lessons for years, but I didn't start playing the piano until I learned to play by ear.

Let me explain.

There are two ways to play the piano. One way is to sight read. This is where you have sheet music in front of you, and the sheet music shows you what notes to play, and how to play them. The better you get at sight reading, the more advanced sheet music you can read, eventually reaching complex classical pieces.

The other way is to play by ear. Instead of reading all the notes off a page and merely "following the instructions", you learn how the different pieces of music are put together. Now you still need to know all the notes on the staff, and where they are on the keyboard. But you'll also know all the different chords, and chord progressions. Then, you can read a piece of sheet music and read the melody, but also see the chords (usually written as the guitar chords). So, when you see a "C" major chord, you know all the different things you can do with that chord. You play it ragtime style. Or like a sonata. You can take the simple melody and chords and create all kinds of sounds and styles. This is what professional pop pianists do. If you want to be a hit at a party, this is the way you need to learn to play.

You can buy books that have thousands of songs with just the melody and the chords, and then you "fake" the song, filling in the rest of the notes. I find it much more enjoyable than the rote style of sight reading. These books are called "Fake Books".

If you want to learn more about this method, pick up:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books


It's been a while since I read up on the subject, but I can still sit down at a piano and start to play just about anything just based on the melody and chords.

Hopefully someone who knows a lot more about this can help with the exact terms for what I'm talking about. You still need to know notation and other basics, but if you find yourself not enjoying playing the piano after a few months or years, definitely give this a try.

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Absolutely go for weighted, or preferably, hammer action. The reason for this is that if you go without, you won't develop a sensitivity to touch for how something sounds depending on how you strike the note, and there's a very surprising amount of variety of sound that can be obtained from a single note. Not developing this ability from the beginning will lead to very bad habits that will result in you sounding worse than you are if you're not playing on your own piano all the time. They will be very tough habits to shake, as well, and will affect how you hear your own playing. Stay away from 'cheap' digitals, in other words.

But the good Yamaha digitals are at least to my 'experienced amateur' fingers the next best thing to an acoustic.

 

[Randy Tennison]

I would agree with Mark that touch sensitivity is an absolute must on any keyboard. Without it, you cannot put the "emotion" into the music. However, weighted keys and touch sensitivity are not the same. My non-weighted keyboard is very touch sensitive.

Perhaps because I learned on a piano originally, I have no problem moving between piano and keyboard (other than getting a little tired quicker on a piano - darned arthritis).

Jonathan, the method you state is exactly how I play. I buy the music books for the guitar chord charts.

 

[Steve Y]

Brian, some of the digital pianos (I have an older Clavinova) even allow you to tune each note on the keyboard separately, so you can put it carefully "out of tune" like grandma's old upright (if you're so inclined)... you can even set it play in different modes ... in other words, certain keys all across the keyboard are tuned up and down in VERY small increments to improve the "purity" of fifths, fourths, thirds, etc. (depending on the mode).. this is one advantage of digital over acoustic, although good acoustic generally sounds and plays better, to my hands & ears.

Whenever I move to an acoustic, my playing seems to improve. The action on digitals becomes a little 'sticky' after repeated usage (even on graded hammer digital, which basically means the keys are weighted differently along the length of the keyboard)... but I bought a digital for the reasons you mentioned, and I haven't regretted it.

I started off playing the piano by memorizing (mostly "classical") pieces bar-by-bar and then playing from memory. My sight-reading was very poor so this was out of necessity... unfortunately, it took me a week of constant practice to learn a 2-page piece, and even then I couldn't commit some of the subtler playing instructions to heart, so I got, um, "creative" with some (playing slightly loud instead of very loud, etc.

I've sinced learned to sight-read and while this has increased my reportoire considerably, it has "chained me to the page", so to speak. It's a good trade-off, but I believe the brain uses different centers to sight-read / memorize; for some reason my "memorized" playing is better than my "sight-read" playing. Unfortunately, I find I can no longer memorize - I don't know if my patience gave out or I forgot how to use that area of my brain.

There is something to be said about playing scales constantly, but I have to say this is not true for everyone. You have to find your own method of learning that is best suited for your individual needs (if that includes finger exercises and scales, so be it). Scales come in handy, but those exercises can really numb some people to the piano.

I would suggest finding some classical sonatas that include scales. That way can practice going up-and-down while learning (and hearing) some amazing music.

There are some easy Scarlatti / Beethoven / Kuhlau sonatinas out there with some great scale action ... for the independent-finger exercises (getting both hands to play different/identical lines on the piano) ... definitely try some Bach. Find some of his easier two-voice inventions (and go slow at first if you need to).

Unfortunately it's true... there are some skills which can never be "learned" ... the goal is not to become a great pianist, but to have those moments where you say to yourself, "whoa! I made THAT sound? cool!"

Buy a chord/scale book and learn how each scale looks on the white and black keys. Hear for yourself, try it out... your goal is to allow yourself to visualize and play chords and scales by sight and touch... just don't burn out on them.

I personally steer clear of the rigid finger exercises (from hanon, etc.), especially since I started later in my life. The best chord / scale exercises I've ever played are contained in the great works of piano literature (as mentioned above - buy a book of easy piano and have fun!!).

s!

 

[BobV]

I've been playing piano for around 30 years, and as Angelo.M said, I can't imagine my life without it. I would echo most everything that has been mentioned in this thread, but I will key (no pun intended) on the stuff I think is important:

1. Sight reading vs playing by ear. Definitely learn sight reading before you even start to progress down the playing by ear branch. You need to have a good basis of what everthing means and accomplishes first so that your playing by ear actually sounds correct. I would recommend taking lessons and progressing to at least a grade 4 or 5 level before going further in playing by ear. Understand that as you take lessons you will be learning some playing by ear, it's unavoidable, you need to learn how the music sounds while you learn. You will have lessons which teach you to pick out what notes are what without looking at the piano. You will learn to play simple one-line tunes that your instructor has played with your back turned and etc etc. Again, I personally would stress that you not go the path of play-by-ear before you have a good base of actual normal piano instruction... trust me, if you're in it for the long haul you will thank me in the years to come.

2. Maintain the discipline. This is hard... very very hard... but practice, do the lessons, do your scales. Stick with it. When I was taking lessons at the beginning I was just a kid and my mom made me sit down at the infernal piano everyday for a half hour to practice. I hated it, but now as mentioned I could not imagine not being able to play. I am so thankful I was forced to practice. As an adult you are going to have to self-discipline yourself and if you're like me, that's very difficult in a long term sense.

3. Electric vs acoustic. If, again, you are in this for the long haul and truly want to be able to play the piano with a modicum of skill, you have no option... acoustic. You will not learn the nuances of playing correctly if you base your piano learning on an electric keyboard. This is incontrivertable (sp?) and beyond discussion no matter what anyone says (bold and snotty aren't I? ). I own an electric keyboard myself, the most natural feeling hammer action keyboard I could find and paid $2500CAD for it (Yamaha). I have no acoustic piano at home but I would desperately love to have one. Electric is just not the same. Period. If you are into the piano lessons just so you can fool around a little on a cold winter day then it probably won't make much difference (although I still say get a good electric), but if you truly want to learn to PLAY the piano, there is NO substitute for acoustic. I just can not stress this enough and I would venture to guess that anyone who plays the piano at a mid-to-high level will agree 100%. Learning to drive your dad's tractor on the farm is similar to driving a car, but until you've actually driven a car, you haven't learned to 'drive'.

4. Take Classical lessons. Again, it's all about the 'base' of your skills and you will gain no better base than learning classical music. If you can truly play classical music you can quickly morph to different styles. Why? Because you have the basics of the mechanics and all other styles will branch from this base somewhere. I rarely ever play classical music anymore (I should do more), but it is the basis of good piano playing. Same goes for playing by ear in my opinion (as I mentioned in item 1). I never used to be able to play by ear, but about 7 or 8 years ago, I wanted to learn, to widen my abilities in piano playing. It took a few years of practice, but now I can play-by-ear pretty well anything I hear within a few tries. It is a learnable talent... if you have the basics down, which classical learning will do.

So.. that's my take on it all. It's all just my opinion, but it is verified through personal experience and through the experiences of many I know. Like so many have said though, have fun, learning the piano can be a difficult process, but the pay off is enormously satisfying. Making music is good for the soul and you will appreciate all music more, actually hearing it for the first time.

 

[Angelo.M]

Amazing advice all around. I echo what many others have experienced and what they have reported here...

1. There is simply no substitute for an acoustic piano, particularly when learning. Even the very best digitals I've played (some of which are housed in a shell to resemble a baby grand) just aren't the same. I can hear my first piano teaching insisting that the piano is, among other things, a percussion instrument, and developing a particular style and percussive sense for the action of the keys is crucial to developing your overall playing style.

2. I also let my music-reading skills lapse to some degree. It all started when I joined my first band in junior high school, and playing by ear became a must, and fakebooks became my friends (or sheet music for guitar, using the chord symbols). I strongly urge that you develop reading skills first, learning scales and chord fingering and progression, and then move on to the "faking" style later. I can't stress how important it is to understand the scales, how chords are built, and chord progressions, particularly if you ever want to create your own stuff (you will). It also helps understand how different styles of music vary (e.g., what makes the blues the blues).

3. The piano is, I think, the best springboard to other instruments. I've been playing piano for over 25 years, and along the way I flirted with the guitar (which I still love playing) and some other instruments. Once you have your basics down--theory, scales, chords, progressions--extrapolating to other instruments is fun.

Good luck, have fun, let us know how you make out.

 

[Mitch Stevens]

I've been TRYING to learn piano all by myself. I have a cheap 61 key, keyboard at home right now, can't afford a piano, especially after the TV I bought. Anyway, I've been at it for 4 years, and I haven't gotten anywhere. I get extremely frustrated, because I can't play anything.

I can read sheet music. Well, actually, I can figure out what the notes on the sheet music paper are, but I can't actually read it while playing. How does one learn to sight read? I've been practicing for 4 years, and like I said before, I haven't gotten anywhere. There are just too many notes to read, especially looking at chords. At a chord, I have to stop completely and figure out which notes the chord has. And then of course, there's the bass line which almost always has chords as well, and the bass notes are not read the same as the treble notes.

My timing is absolutely terrible. If I have not heard the song hundreds of times, there's absolutely no way on earth I can play it. Even though I know what half/whole/quater/eighth notes are, I simply can not play a song which I haven't heard many many times.

I have been able to "memorize" some songs, but not too many, and certainly not anything complicated.

I can close my eyes and pretty much know where each key is, so that's not the problem. The problem lies with reading the sheet music. After all these years you would think I would have learned how to read it quickly, but I simply can't. Does anyone have any tips on learning how to sight-read?