Simpson lip sync on SNL (1 Viewer)

[Gary->dee]

quote:Fact is, that would not have actually looked much better. We would still be discussing it here.

But the fact of the matter is that she made no effort to correct the mistake, other than dance like a goon. Btw anyone who claims she did an Irish jig is offending Irish people and anyone that ever attempted a halfway decent jig.

So in the end, she made the worst possible decision by walking off the stage. I would guess that as a performer you never ever do that unless people are throwing rotten fruit at you and even then you'd probably try to win them over by demonstrating your talent. At least an ernest performer would. So basically even if she tried to make the best of it and tried to actually sing the song, the damage wouldn't have been near as bad as it is. We'd be talking about how there was a goof during her performance but she made an honest attempt to recoup from the mistake by taking control and singing.

A valiant effort: something she is very much unaware of. On the other hand I understand her attitude. Everything is falling to shit, fuck it, leave now and cut your losses. But as a so-called professional singer on a live broadcast that option simply isn't available. At least it shouldn't be.

Oh well, live and learn.

 

[John Kilduff]

Okay, so they lip-synch on "Mad TV", too...





I meant my earlier comments in the ways that there's a rivalry between the two shows and in my opinion, "MAD TV" is walloping the shit out of "SNL". This only adds more fuel to the fire. Note also that I said it seemed more live on "MAD TV"...Note the word "seemed". Since "Mad TV" is taped, lip-synching is okay. "SNL" is live, so the music should be, too.





Sincerely,





John Kilduff...





But what do I know?

 

[Shane Gralaw]

There is no excuse for lip synching for a live performance. Period! If you have acid reflux, postpone until you are ready to perform and give someone who IS ready a shot. Britney Spears did an obvious lip synch on her past SNL appearence for the "dance" number then came back to do a very half-assed live vocal performance for the slow number. It just proved that she is not worthy of her place in the pop pantheon as a vocalist- mearly as an image. I can understand the power of a great image - let's face it- Madonna is not great singer but can manipulate her image like almost no others. There is a certain value to that and that is why she is a star. But pop image should not trump vocal talent. In a live setting, you are not watching for the video component, but rather for the song. It is the music, not the image, that counts. That is secondary. I don't like pop, really, but can at least respect artists like Christina Aguilera who have real vocal talent and can deliver a live performance and do not necessarily depend on flash over substance. This was not a music video- it was a putatively live number.





Fans should not expect the album version. That is what makes a live performance interesting- the small changes, and yes even the small mistakes. One of my favorite bands (The Breeders) does not even allow pro-tools in the studio anymore as it messes with the spontenaety. You can hear small mistakes and breaths during the songs and they are all the better for it. Think of the classic song "Wild Thing" - there is a very obvious mistake when the singer starts the next verse too soon and stops himself and joins the band at the appropriate spot. Nobody likes the song any less because of it. It adds an energy to the songs because they are not manufactured, but real.





I have zero sympathy for a manufactured pop star like Ms. Simpson. If she is to rely on tricks and spin for her entire career, she deserves to eat it when those tricks expose her lack of talent. Learn to sing and perform and next time (should you be so lucky) you won't be caught with your Irish jigging foot up your bum. Warhol devided all "worthy" people into two categories- talkers and beauties. You could expand that into the pop realm- either you have real vocal talent or a great image. If you have neither, then get off the damn stage and stop wasting my time.

 

[Phil_L]

quote:Madonna is not great singer but can manipulate her image like almost no others. There is a certain value to that and that is why she is a star.

Totally agree, but she has taken lots of voice lessons during and since Evita. That's something alot of established stars would be too proud to do.

 

[Randy Tennison]

I went back and watched Ashley's first song on SNL, and man, it is so obvious. The first two lines of the song, you hear two voices singing the lyrics. Then, halfway through the third line, it becomes one voice, and it's obviously not live.





Ashley did a poor job of lip syncing during it, as well. She even stopped syncing the final note before the voice ended.





During the "incident", it's obvious the drummer screwed up. He kicks off the beat, and starts playing the rhythm to the wrong song. The bass player started playing, then stopped. Finally, the guitarist starts playing along with the track.





So, it effect, Ashley was correct stating that the band started playing the wrong song. The drummer was playing it, and the band joined in. The drummer should have stopped, hit stop, and cued up the write song.

 

[RichardK]

I saw the RMA performance 'live', and it seemed to me that this was also a lip synch performance...Even with her on mike joke about them about to play the wrong song, again... Also the song she performed is just horrendous. My wife, who is not even a fraction as critical as i am, actually agreed. If you have a chance to see the RMA peformance, watch how she never stays in one place for more than about 10 seconds, and she turns her back to the audience and camera many times during her figure 8 on the walk/strut on stage. The sad part is, her album will continue to sell, she will likely make another album, and people will buy that too.

 

[Bren_Chris]

The idea that the drummer has to "cue" anything is what irks, and lo and behold, part of what was cued was the "singer's" prerecorded track. Maybe the drummer had acid reflux and forgot that they were on Song #2. Whatever the case, and whatever sparked the snafu, viewers still have every right to be indignant, and Simpson is still shamed. She is a damn fraud, no matter who crashed the truck.





This is why I love jazz.

 

[TheLongshot]

quote:Madonna is not great singer

Maybe not great, but at least capable. On occasion, she can impress.

quote:I saw the RMA performance 'live', and it seemed to me that this was also a lip synch performance...

The Washington Post writer who wrote about this incident thought it was a live performance, but said that wasn't saying much, since it wasn't exactly a song the required talent.

quote:So in the end, she made the worst possible decision by walking off the stage.

Agreed. You either try to work through the mistake, or you start over from the top. The band at least tried playing through the song they started. Not terribly professional on her part.





Jason

 

[MickeS]

Big frickin' deal. Embarrassing for her (especially after that "I don't lip sync" comment ), fun for us.

Not that much more to it IMO, personally I don't care if anyone lipsyncs or not. I prefer a fake good end result to some real crap when it comes to meaningless music like this.
I'm sure most hit artists have all sort of help with their performances.
/Mike

 

[Vince Maskeeper]

quote:Ah ok, Anthony. But then, would that really be considered 'staged' if the performers know about it and the venue does not? IMO I wouldn't classify it as being staged, more of an actual performance, kinda like performance art.

The deal with the Costello thing was more what it inferred than said: Although Elvis Costello never came out and said anything of the sort, the way he launched into one song then stopped and apologized to the audience and launched into another song (an anti-establishment anthem about the commodification of music)-- it alluded that the producers of SNL were "preventing" him from playing the inflammatory song- and he decided at the last moment to rebel against this authority.





The rumors have continued to this day (and I've seen posts about it this week actually) that "radio, radio" had been "banned" across the nation, and the SNL producer Lorne Michaels specifically instructed Costello not to play the song: all of which is bull.





Of course, he never said that- it was sorta inferred... and a legendary moment was born (which, as i mentioned before, was completely staged).

quote:Madonna is not great singer but can manipulate her image like almost no others. There is a certain value to that and that is why she is a star.

I've always found this hilarious: the music industry is the only one where following the trends and completely changing your entire ethos to suit the buying public is celebrated. I have never seen a madonna retrospective that didn't endlessly congratulate her on being a faceless paperdoll on which the flavor of the moment is hung.





I can just imagine if I 'reinvented" myself every few years based upon the trends and media potential- i would imagine everyone I know would probably think I was a shallow asshole.





Such is life.

quote:During the "incident", it's obvious the drummer screwed up. He kicks off the beat, and starts playing the rhythm to the wrong song. The bass player started playing, then stopped. Finally, the guitarist starts playing along with the track.





So, it effect, Ashley was correct stating that the band started playing the wrong song. The drummer was playing it, and the band joined in. The drummer should have stopped, hit stop, and cued up the write song.

As i mentioned in my post above- your assessment of what happened is a bit off the mark. Keep in mind the band was hearing cue click track in their monitors: the click for the wrong song. At which point they have to make a decision: try to play the right song to the wrong tracks, or try to cover (or signal your singer) by kicking into the track that is about to come out of the speakers.








I also do not buy the excuse that the drummer cues the sequence. While it is certainly POSSIBLE that this is true-- in this day and age I find it really hard to believe (especially since the "drummer' is actually a hired hand)-- with lighting cues, mix presets and [I would guess on tour] dance moves all set by the song selection- seems that someone at front of house would have control over making sure the right production tracks were cued.





Depending on the technical realities of what they were pulling their tracks from (i.e. how many canned tracks were necessary)-- it would be impractical to cue this from a seq or hdd recorder- it would be more likely to come from a computer, controlled by the guys at front of house.








And I love how many message boards are touting the "It's the drummers fault"- as if it changes what happened in the slightest. Whether the drummer, the FOH engineer or Ashlee herself cued the wrong track on national TV, revealing the canned vocal -- the point was the canned vocal- not who accidentally revealed it.





Lol.

 

[Malcolm R]

quote:If you have acid reflux, postpone until you are ready to perform

Or take a Pepcid or Zantac like every other person with that problem.

quote:Madonna is not great singer

She's not great, but she's light years superior to the current group of tarts on the charts.

 

[MarkHastings]

quote:personally I don't care if anyone lipsyncs or not. I prefer a fake good end result to some real crap when it comes to meaningless music like this.

That's true. How many people are REALLY going to Ashlee, Britney, Jessica-type concerts to hear them sing live? It's more about the visual performance, the show, and the catchiness of the songs with these types of acts.

 

[Kevin M]

quote:And finally, it was the drummer that push3ed the wrong button? Should someone else have that responsibility? The drummer has enough to do already.

Actually as the main "time keeper" of the band he is the obvious choice for this...you just have to hope he doesn't screw it up...or that you don't piss him off and give him a reason to expose you

 

[Martin Rendall]

You'd have to be living in a cave to be surprised or outraged at any of this.





Oh, and professional wrestling is NOT REAL.





Martin.

 

[Randy Tennison]

quote:the point was the canned vocal- not who accidentally revealed it.

Agreed. I was merely talking about the claims of "Liar!" shouted at Ashley on many message boards when she blamed her band for playing the wrong song. They did. She didn't have the "performance chops" to know what to do about it, so she ran.

 

[Jonathan Carter]

quote:Oh come on Carl - pretty much every artist out there (at least produced under a major record label) has an engineer to thank for making them sound so freakin great! And lets not forget the 76 takes allowed for the artist in the studio to get the sound just right. That's not a luxury they can afford during a live show... none of that means they can't sing. None of that means they are frauds.

Hmmm, that logic must only apply to shitty pop stars because most of the concerts I've been to, the bands and artists sound like they do on the album. Maybe that's because I shun todays "pop" music and prefer indie rock or alt country, etc...Or maybe having to lip sync is a side effect of being a no talent pop starlet who is trying to cash in on her sister's fame.

 

[Will_B]

Did we learn nothing from that episode of The Patridge Family?





Or was it the Brady Bunch.

 

[Keith Paynter]

quote:Did we learn nothing from that episode of The Patridge Family?

Any in particular...?

Or (more realistically) Shania Twain at the Super Bowl?

 

[Seth Paxton]

quote:No offense, Seth. Just amused by how Hitler gets invoked in a discussion of mediocre-talent pop star

None taken, it is rather funny.

I will say this, the reason I used it here (or anytime) is not to compare the two actions as equal in horrific qualities, but rather to use an example commonly considered to be clear of gray areas so that the point won't get mired in sub-debates about "well, that really wasn't even wrong". Invariably almost any other metaphor or analogy I use ends up sidetracked (straw man'd) into some off the point side argument.

Of course the point being made is that just doing what you are told is the worst sort of excuse, even if you consider it from the artist's standpoint in this case.

Just consider the pressure to do this that she felt, where does it come from? Well, it exists because if you want to make it this is what you do because if you don't 10 other people will. But of course if you DO do it then you are one of those "10 other people" who are forcing someone else to do it.

By refusing to be one of the 10 others, you help to end the cycle of pressure, in this case to lipsync in order to get paid as a "singer".

That should be the rule of thumb everyone follows with any sort of peer/social pressure - if YOU do it because everyone else does it, you have just become the "everyone else" that is the problem and have helped create the very pressure you are blaming. i.e., you really are blaming yourself in the big circle of things.

quote:Btw how was Simpson's first performance on SNL? Did it seem obviously canned? I read somewhere that the way she held the mic with two hands to cover her mouth made it look like it was lip-synced.

I commented to my wife later that it seemed like she was covering her face, though at the time I thought it was (seriously) because her producers felt she didn't have Jessica's looks. My wife pointed out that this is how she always performs. Either way I did notice it and thought it was unusual. They also seemed to be cutting in a way to deemphasize us looking at her face, which when you consider the lack of dancing or fame of her band makes very little sense normally.

 

[Seth Paxton]

I strongly disagree with this. In America one of our favorite pastimes is to forgive the fallen star. Here was a chance to knock her off the pedestal and then lift her back up with forgiveness all in one shot.

Busted for lip-syncing she gets with the band and they put things together without the sync, that's the performance chops that many of us have been mentioning.

That at least says that while for this situation they felt it was better to go with a sync they didn't HAVE to. Her inablity to do ANYTHING in that situation tells us that the sync track was 100% required - either because she can't sing at all or because she doesn't have the live experience to handle any remotely difficult live problem.

Here's an idea - tour you F'N bitch (and dad, record company, etc) before you get a RARE SHOT on NATIONAL LIVE TV. Sheesh. Go on tour, learn the ropes of live performing, build up your talent as a performer in all aspects not just singing, and THEN get your big break.

The fact is that in her case none of this has happened because she was given a free pass through the line thanks to money and family fame.


I can think of hundreds of live moments at concerts I went to in which the artist had to break form (plus many others I've seen from TV). Axl jumps in to fight a guy, Green Day gets mud thrown at them. One time in a small Indy venue we saw Blind Melon and due to some drunken frat boys getting overly aggressive they band stopped and threatened to walk off if things couldn't be controlled (they ended up staying on).

Hell, one time at Purdue we saw the Pretenders and The Alarm was supposed to open for them. Instead there was a late change and some other band was run out. They weren't very good, but there was a great live moment when the singer stopped, took a banner from the fans in the front row, and then showed it to the crowd. It said "We want The Alarm. You suck."

Play through shit like that and you learn to deal with anything.