shows that have been destroyed

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by jimmyjet, May 12, 2013.

  1. The Obsolete Man

    The Obsolete Man Screenwriter

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    It's too bad MPI doesn't have the budget of the BBC, because they could probably have done a fair flash animated version of the one missing Dark Shadows episode, the way the Beeb is animating missing Doctor Who episodes.
     
  2. Frank Soyke

    Frank Soyke Screenwriter

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    I've read so many differing posts about which Hollywood Squares are around, which were destroyed, which ones GSN ran, and which version. My head is spinning and I still gotta admit I don't have much of a clue as to what's out there. Let me simplfy the era of interest to me and maybe I can get some confirmation as to availability.

    I watched the nighttime version religiously from about 74-78 and those are the ones I'm looking for. By this time Wally Cox was gone and the regular re-occuring panalists were: Lynde, Charley Weaver (early on), Rose Marie, Jan Murray, Marty Allen, And George Gobel plus to rotating ones.

    Anyone that can help me gets a fur compliments of Dicker and Dicker of Beverly Hills
     
  3. JMFabianoRPL

    JMFabianoRPL Stunt Coordinator

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    This might hold true for a lot of H-B hours, at least being seen in their original formats. See: Dynomutt/Scooby, in which the syndicated intros are used for each segment and not the combined version. Richie Rich/Scooby-Doo was similar, but just for the weirdly edited end credits.
    Four Star syndicated those reruns...if the tapes still exist, I guess they would be with Fox now? Wonder if someone could confirm/deny this....
     
  4. Brian Himes

    Brian Himes Screenwriter

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    Yes, the 1971-78 Nighttime Syndicated version (the one you watched from 1974-78) is by all accounts the one version that appears to be or rumoured to be complete and intact. Since GSN did air just about half of the 1968 Prime Time version, I would assume that it also exists complete and intact.

    The regular 1966-80 Daytime run and the 1980-81 Daytime Syndicated run are the ones where most of the episodes are either lost or destroyed. The regular Daytime run is rumoured to exist from somewhere in 1978 to the finale of 1980 as well as the 1980-81 Daytime Syndicated run.
     
  5. oldtvshowbuff

    oldtvshowbuff Second Unit

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    Could the same hold true for the Walter Brennan/Dack Rambo series The Guns Of Will Sonnett? It too has been butchered for syndication in the 80s and released on DVD.
     
  6. oldtvshowbuff

    oldtvshowbuff Second Unit

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    I have a VHS tape of game shows I purchased from Shokus containing a Truth or Consequences episode taken from a color kinescope.
     
  7. oldtvshowbuff

    oldtvshowbuff Second Unit

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    And now, how about those vintage Country Music shows on TV.

    How much of The Porter Wagoner Show exists on videotape.

    The Grand Ole Opry.

    Or countless other country shows on television back in the 60s and 70s.
     
  8. Ron1973

    Ron1973 Beverly Hillbilles nut extraordinaire

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    RFD-TV has ran a pretty good cross sample of the show from the b/w era and on up to the later episodes after Dolly left.

    Considering the Opry has been around since the 20's, I doubt a definitive amount of film exists, especially the earliest years.

    Of particular interest, though, are the Kate Smith Evening Hour episodes with the Opry cast (including Hank Williams). They were thought lost in their entirety for a lot of years but were found in a Boston library in kinescope form. I have them on DVD courtesy of a friend of mine as well as some of the 1950's color episodes of the Opry (the Gazzaway films).
     
  9. DeWilson

    DeWilson Cinematographer

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    Wonderful, a greedy SOB holding out for a big payday!
     
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  10. Peter M Fitzgerald

    Peter M Fitzgerald Screenwriter

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    Wiped tapes? Trashed film elements? Ultimately, I think we can lay 100% of the blame at the feet of this guy. :laugh:
     
  11. oldtvshowbuff

    oldtvshowbuff Second Unit

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    Consider the case of Paul Winchell and his dummy, Jerry Mahoney, who did a daily local color hour-long show in LA in 1963-64 and later syndicated by Metromedia, which wanted to recut those tapes into half-hour highlight shows. Winchell told Metromedia that he should supervise the editing, but they told him if he didn't sign a contract with them to give them the power to edit whatever they please with those 250 episodes, those tapes would be destroyed, and so they did, they hauled them all away, 250 2-inch wide tape reels in a dumpster, probably all dumped into the Pacific Ocean for all intents and purposes. Winchell sued for breach of contract, but he retained a few of those tapes, but they can never be seen again.OH, WHAT BIG DUMMIES THEY ARE, METROMEDIA!!!
     
  12. Neil Brock

    Neil Brock Cinematographer

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    Disagree totally. Why shouldn't he hold out for a big payday? All I ever heard, before this copy surfaced, was how if anyone had it, it would be worth a million dollars. Then, when the tape turned up, they offered him $30,000 for it. All of a sudden, it dropped in value by $970,000 from when it didn't exist to when it did. Just because NBC and CBS were both too stupid to save the tapes. By the way, Super Bowl 2 is missing as well. But I guarantee you that if you turned up something rare, anything, a painting, a coin, whatever, and you were being offered a fraction of the stated value for it, you wouldn't jump at the deal either.
     
  13. Neil Brock

    Neil Brock Cinematographer

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    He won a lawsuit against them and collected something like $17 million.
     
  14. Ron1973

    Ron1973 Beverly Hillbilles nut extraordinaire

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    I believe I'd put that bad boy up on the "Tube" for spite!!!
     
  15. The Obsolete Man

    The Obsolete Man Screenwriter

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    Probably can't without being sued.

    IIRC, the way it works is The NFL owns the rights to the actual content of the recording, but not the physical recording itself. So, he really can't do anything with the tape except sell it to the NFL.
     
  16. Silverking

    Silverking Stunt Coordinator

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    'Branded' & The Guns of Will Sonnett' were both syndicated together as a package titled 'The Chuck Conners Theatre'. No idea if the original prints survive.

    'The Avengers' was itself a spin off of a half hour series called 'Police Surgeon'. Only one episode survives & appears on the first recent UK release.
     
  17. TonyD

    TonyD Who do we think I am?
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    This is a brilliant idea for discussion.I can't think of any right now that may be gone forever but those old episodes of Liars Club and Make Me Laugh would be Instant purchases for me if I could get them on DVD.
     
  18. AndyMcKinney

    AndyMcKinney Cinematographer

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    I'm pretty sure "Guns of Will Sonnett" was rerun on CBN in the mid '80s.

    As for your other comment, were you talking of "The Avengers" or "Police Surgeon" only having a single episode existing? If the former, a second episode (Girl on a Trapeze) was discovered at UCLA (of all places), plus an extract from Hot Snow.
     
  19. Jack P

    Jack P Producer

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    Incidentally, I don't blame the person who has Super Bowl I with wanting more from the NFL. He is the one who preserved a crude videotape recording for decades and is entitled to more than a paltry $30,000 from the NFL which can afford to give him more and which earlier placed a value much higher on an extant recording.

    By contrast, there is an individual in Illinois by the name of Ewing who for more than 15 years sat on the only extant copy of Don Larsen's perfect game before he finally struck a deal with MLB that resulted in its airing. Ewing found the kinescope at a flea market literally in the early 90s and for years afterwards first didn't confirm he had it (in the meantime figures associated with the broadcast like Mel Allen and director Harry Coyle had passed away and were denied the chance to see it again) then in the mid-2000s he started charging admission to see it at private screenings (usually on the order of several hundred dollars) before finally MLB got hold of it in a deal where it aired on the first day the MLB Network started on New Year's Day 2009. It has since been released on DVD though Ewing himself still markets a copy himself with the Gillette ads left it. He is a different case from the Super Bowl I taper because IMO what he did to obtain the original isn't in the same category of what the SB I taper did.
     
  20. DeWilson

    DeWilson Cinematographer

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    But honestly, how did they come to the value of a million dollars? It's worth as a historical importance has be be weighed against what the NFL could generate by sales on DVD or ad dollars when rebroadcast.I mean if this guy things the league will pay him a million dollars (or more) he's out of his tree.
    The networks were not stupid - nor was the league for not keeping these broadcasts - it's the culture of one-and-done. Sports history has always been about the stats, not the actual game footage or broadcasts.

    But he lost the shows, and the work he wanted continued to be seen. What few exist are in the hands of his estate never to be seen due to the settlement.
    Again, it is most likely the master negatives do exist on the shows - I find it highly unlikely that king world (now part of CBS) didn't retain uncut negatives to "Branded" and "Will Sonnett"
    The difference is Ewing is a respected sports films historian and archivist, who also runs his own business selling,and archiving sports footage particularly baseball. ( He worked for several teams and alot of that material, particularly pre-1963 is in the public domain and he saved it from neglect.)
     

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