Show of hands - who sees the DLP rainbow effect?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Charlie Campisi, Apr 28, 2005.

  1. Charlie Campisi

    Charlie Campisi Screenwriter

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    I have a lot of friends that are asking me which tv they should buy. I begin by telling them no current technology is the be all, end all and that they have to choose a display based upon their viewing habits, room and budget. That always seems to work fine. When I run down the pluses and minuses of all the different technologies, I always caution them to go see a DLP and take their family as well, or anyone that will spend a good amount of time viewing the set, to make sure they don't see the rainbows. Is this wasted breath? I've never met anyone who said they saw them. Anyone here have the problem? Anyone seen any figures on what percentage of the population may see the DLP rainbows?
     
  2. Doug_H

    Doug_H Supporting Actor

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    I have set up a number of friends with the InFocus X-1 and the rainbows have shown up twice. I was able to correct the problem on one by upgrading the DVD-Player. The rainbows went away completely.

    The second time the guy was shooting against a white wall. I painted a Goo screen for him and again the rainbows went away.

    I know that some people seem to see them no matter what and if you are looking for them they are much more likely to appear. I believe this group is a much smaller percentage than we are led to believe. I honestly believe that most rainbows can be eliminated with proper setup and equipment.
     
  3. John S

    John S Producer

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    I see them on nearly every RP DLP. It is funny, I don't see them until I happen to notice them, and then I see them all the time. I don't see them to bad, on even the 4805 Front Projector though, which seems odd to me, it would be any different. But I have to look hard to see them on the 4805, and then if I want to see them again, I have to look equally as hard. Not sure why. But I am way starting to dig FP in general these days. It took a long time to get me to think out of the box so to speak. [​IMG]
     
  4. Leo Kerr

    Leo Kerr Screenwriter

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    Some people are fortunate in that they can't see them.

    Some times I have to work fairly hard to 'break' a DLP image, but I generally can.

    Some are better than others, though, and I'm not quite sure what the differences are.

    Leo
     
  5. James Phung

    James Phung Second Unit

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    Rainbows are easier to see when the picture is brighter. With the overly bright 4805, many people see less (or no) rainbows after applying an Neutral Density filter.
     
  6. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    I'm with John.

    I sell front and rear projector DLP's and I see them on RP's, but not on FP's.

    Sucks, because I want a new TV and technically, the DLP's are awesome.
     
  7. Evan M.

    Evan M. Supporting Actor

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    I think the question should be "Who is bothered by DLP rainbows?" I think if a lot of people stared at a bright and large DLP image that was very contrasty and moved there eyes back and forth quick most will see RBE. But I bet hardly any would be bothered by them....ie. headache or dizziness.
    A majority of people notice RBE on FP since the image is much larger and your eyes tend to move around the screen a lot. If you are getting into a RP set which of course is much smaller I really would not be concerned since such a small fraction of people will be bothered by them. This of course is not a concrete theory since already a few people say they notice them al lot on RP but I would be wiling to bet the majority is more from larger screens.
    Of course the thing you will want is a fast color wheel. That usually cures it for most people. On an X1 (2X wheel speed)I noticed rainbows are VERY noticeable.....I Own a 4805 and it is hardly noticeable unless I look for them (4x wheel speed).
    I think a lot of people buy a big screen DLP set and blame headaches on RBE when in fact it is the fact that it is a big screen and they are not used to watching such a big screen and they are just experiencing some eye fatigue. At any rate, I would not be afraid at all to get into DLP. It is a great technology and has a lot to offer that other technology's can't.
     
  8. Ron-P

    Ron-P Producer

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    I had heard of the RBE but had no idea what it was until I fired up my X1 with Fellowship of the Rings, they were everywhere. Once I saw them I then knew what the RBE was. I tried the X1 on a white wall in my living room, on my white Da-Lite screen and on a grey screen, I also tried several different filters. Nothing could get rid of the rainbows. The grey screen reduced there overall brightness but the were still there.

    I am one of the few who see them and get headaches from them. My wife could see them but was not bothered.

    Luckily, I found the Panny 200u LCD. It's image was nearly identical to that of the dlp X1.

    Both LCDs and DLPs have +'s and -'s. Just need to pick you poison and be happy.
     
  9. raymond caputo

    raymond caputo Stunt Coordinator

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    ok...i'm stupid..but can someone explain exactly what rainbow effect is?? maybe i'm better off not knowing because i don't see it...
     
  10. Evan M.

    Evan M. Supporting Actor

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    Are you sure you want to know???????????? LOL!! Honestly.....and I am going to be blunt....if you do not know and never have seen them than I will not be the one to tell you. I am convinced that had I not read and asked what they were I would not see them. Once you know what to look for you will not stop until you see them.....sounds weird but trust me....you will not stop until you see them LOL!! You will then whish you didn't ask. I am not sure what technicaly causes it other than 1 chip DLP's with slower wheel speeds. If you really want to look for them then read my previous post in this thread and I basicaly explaine how to do it......But I am warning you......DON'T!!!!!!!!!!
     
  11. Wayde_R

    Wayde_R Stunt Coordinator

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    I think I saw it, sort of.

    I've done a lot of critical viewing on RPs of every sort. If you flick your eyes from one side of the screen to another when there are bright images, you might see it too. It helps to even jerk your head to the side and keep your eye straight, widen them a bit too. Oh yeah, if you're trying this technique at a TV shop or superstore to see if you can see the rainbow effect, make sure you have your tongue hanging out while you do it. You might start a trend.[​IMG]
     
  12. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Seen 'em. Remember, it's only single chip systems that have it. Impossible on a 3 chip system (no color wheel).

    All LCD RP uses 3 chips. Most LCoS use 3 chips. It's really only cheaper DLP displays that use 1 chip. Personally, I wouldn't buy a single chip system.
     
  13. Derek H

    Derek H Agent

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    Can someone please make a simple Pros ans Cons about LCD LCos DLP. I think it would be great to put in the Noob Primer so people like me will not have to ask all the time.
     
  14. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Pick up the latest e-Gear. I got a free one in the mail, and they had a pretty good discussion of them all.
     
  15. Inspector Hammer!

    Inspector Hammer! Executive Producer

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    I know what the rainbow effect is, that's not my concern as it doesn't show up on my Infocus X1. My question is what the hell is "Goo Screen"? [​IMG]

    I use my wall as well and I have sanded and painted it wolf grey, but if this "goo screen" is better, please tell me and I will try it. Thanks. [​IMG]
     
  16. Chris Stock

    Chris Stock Extra

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    I can't see them, but my wife can.... Thus LCD.
     
  17. Charles P

    Charles P Auditioning

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    I see them unfortunately. I also get headaches watching DLP.I would NEVER buy a single chip DLP projector but if you dont see rainbows the picture is very good.
     
  18. Wayde_R

    Wayde_R Stunt Coordinator

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    I believe the idea is the colour wheel creats the illusion of three colours melding together. Which is why three chip is better, no illusion. If you're seeing the rainbow the illusion isn't working, it's possible you see "faster", like a dog. Dogs can actually see the blinking of the CRT TV, we see it as a solid colour. Dogs evolved to hunt by reflexes and quick reaction, dart after a rabit.

    I feel sorry for people who see the rainbow, but they're probably pretty good at ping-pong or other reflex sports.
     
  19. Inspector Hammer!

    Inspector Hammer! Executive Producer

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    Other reflex sports? You mean like chasing the mailman or fetching a stick? [​IMG]
     
  20. Evan M.

    Evan M. Supporting Actor

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    LOL!! If you don't know what it is I can see how that can sound a bit odd. Goo system is a company that makes a type of product you can paint a DIY screen with or even just a section of a wall. It is actually a great product and looks quite good. It may be a bit more money but it will save you a lot of time or aggravation if you are looking for the right "color" to paint the screen or even worse...mixing a bunch of colors. If you do a Yahoo search for Goo Screen you can find their website.
     

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