Should WB and the BDA give HD DVD owners a "peace offering" to welcome them to Blu? (1 Viewer)

[Paul_Scott]

nah. It'll be a long slow transition. The infrastructure (the HD displays in peoples homes) isn't there yet, and any optical disc format, or should I say, the Bd format, will likely just keep pace with that. So we are still looking at several years at modestly, or even morbidly shy, growth.
This despite the fact that Bd has it all sewed up in the eyes of enthusiasts..who are to ones who help to influence the J6P mass consumer (word-of-mouth).

Hey, if Sony and its BDA partners can afford to hang in there for the long haul, they will get it all. But if along the way, we aren't getting many catalog titles and studios keep cutting back (like Warner did with its planned catalog releases last year)- then I'll personally have little use for the format, and it can go swing for all I care.

 

[Sanjay Gupta]

This is one concern that I too share. But honestly I feel that the studios are going to end up spending money on new HD transfers of catalog titles for broadcasting and other purposes anyhow, thus releasing them on HDM will only be an incremental cost. Also, the poor sales of catalog titles are a reflection of the poor quality of catalog titles released so far, rather than a true indicator of consumer interest in catalog titles on HDM. Seriously, how many real classics have been released on HDM so far? To make matters worse, in addition to the poor choice of catalog titles, the consumer has so far had to also worry about the choice of format and the long term survivability of the chosen format. Assuming that the market shall now move towards a single (Blu-Ray) format, the sales of catalog titles, atleast the meritorious one's, shall definately see a marked improvement in sales. Ofcourse, there is one more very important factor that the studios will have to consider to ensure higher sales of catalog titles, ie. a more rational pricing structure for catalog titles on HDM. So far, most catalog titles have been over priced and as soon as the studios realize that and act accordingly, I am sure the sales of catalog titles will also pick up. But then, there is an element of the 'chicken and egg' situation working here, thus as the HD player base increases we might see the studios gradually price titles more rationaly.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

I agree w/ the original post. They should try to make a reasonable "peace offering". I think something like a $25-to-50 discount toward a standalone BD player *plus* a handful free swaps for BD titles just for those HDD owners would make sense.

Considering it looks like some studios (eg. Disney) might be looking at offering SD-to-HDM upgrade pricing/coupons/rebates anyway, I don't see why they can't at least offer some free media swaps for this, especially Warner.

_Man_

 

[Adam Gregorich]

This is a problem for both formats. BD catalog numbers look better than HD DVDs, but this is a direct result of the BOGO offers. I have seen the raw numbers and catalog sales were up 1000% some BOGO weeks. If there were never any BOGOs the numbers would be much worse. In the US there are approx 430 titles currently availabe on BD. Offical sales numbers are approx 4.78 million since inception. The top 25 titles are responsible for over 40% of those sales! The top 50 titles are responsible for over 50% of the number of sales! 50 titles (mostly new releases) outsold 380 mostly catalog titles, and like I said, the catalog numbers would have been much worse if not for the BOGOs. A few months ago (Before the BOGOs) there was a time when the top 10 discs were responsible for almost 50% of the sales. There are a lot of great "newer films" catalog and classical catalog titles that are hovering around the 500 mark for titles sold, some of which received highest recommendation by HTF reviewers! Once the format war settles down, the formats aren't going to have the incentive to get bigger catalog titles out until there are 3-4 million standalone players in households. It will be a while before you see the classics I'm afraid. (Just to clarify HD DVD has the same problem with catalog sales.)

 

[Nick Graham]

Amen, and I don't know about you guys, but I am sick of waiting for Under Siege 2, and was really hoping Sudden Death would get announced alongside Timecop.

Oh wait....we may have very different perspectives on what qualifies as a "classic".

On a serious note, I'm all for moving forward with a single format so that sales improve enough to merit classics being released. Because of that dirty rat fink Adam Gregorich, I actually sold my Hitchock set when he reported that Universal told him that the first Hitchcock HDs were on their way last fall. I know it's Universal's fault and not Adam's that they changed their mind, but he still owes me Psycho and Vertigo on Blu-Ray whenever they come out

 

[Adam Gregorich]

OUCH! Actually when they finally come out I can say "I told you so"!

 

[Mark Cappelletty]

This is a ridiculous thread. I don't trust Bill Hunt's word anymore than I do that of the raging BR fanboy on a "Smackdown" thread elsewhere. This kind of "exchange" just ain't gonna happen. Barry Meyer and the beancounters at Warner are just laughing at us, waiting for nervous nellies to dump their HD-DVD Blade Runner sets and rebuy them on Blu-Ray. If you think corporations are magnanimous, I have about 10,000 striking writers who'd like to have a chat with you.

What would I like to see-- what I wanted even before this debacle. A solid, reasonably-priced dual-format player that's completely compliant and is going to hold up for some time. That way, I get to keep the library of 35 HD-DVD titles or so that I have and then buy the BR versions of the Sony/Disney/Fox films that i'd like to get and play them on one machine, without having to buy a game console or overpriced standalone player I don't want.

 

[Jari K]

Why would they "dump" their HD DVD-releases? Players work, HD DVD-titles have the same, great quality, so I don´t believe that many will "re-buy" their HD-titles at this point. Perhaps then IF the HD DVD "fades away" and the old HD DVD-titles are "on sale" everywhere.

So I don´t believe that Warner is laughing at us, nor any fans. After all, Warner has always been THE best company of the majors. This won´t change that, nor their attitude to always deliver the "best" (well, perhaps not in the HD-audio front, though).

 

[Demise]

As a person who bought into HD DVD, I don't need any incentive from the BDA to buy a Blu-ray player (not that I'd turn one down). It's something I'll do in the fairly near future.

What has buying into HD DVD really cost me? I got a fully-specced, region-free player at a very good price and lots of wonderful films on HD. In addition, now that the die is cast, I should be able to pick up more HD DVD discs and a backup player at upcoming firesales. Sounds like a bargain to me.

When I do get a Blu player, it will be less expensive than if I'd bought it earlier and hopefully by then the spec will be finalized.

Now, if I were a board member at Toshiba, I'd be wearing a long face. But I'm just a consumer, and things appear to have worked out pretty well for me.

 

[David_B_K]

That is a good reason for the BD folks to try some sort of peace offering. Consumers literally do not know whom to trust. I expect a lot of HD DVD people will have soured on HDM by now. I am probably a good example of the type of person they should pursue. I am not interested in paying big bucks to get into Blu-ray and dealing with its various profiles. The idea of having to buy a gaming machine to get a player just seems kind of lame to me.

Frankly, I don’t think any sort of meaningful offers will be made. I guess I am one who will stick to SD for awhile. I am keeping my HD player and the discs, and will probably snap up a few bargains and used discs here and there. I’m not going to go crazy buying HD discs, but there are a few titles more that I would like. I happen to feel that by the time Blu-ray players are affordable as HD ones were, that the “next big thing” in HDM will be just over the horizon, so I may as well wait for that.

 

[Adam Gregorich]

It makes no sense to do a software swapout. My software is fine. I can see them offering a certificate or coupon good for $XX off a player. Hopefully it will be BD Live player with full audio internal decoding (like the new Panasonic BD50) as HD DVD owners are used to those features.

 

[Paul.S]

Hear hear, Adam.

Haven't read the entire thread yet--this point may have been made. Amplifying on your point of a software swap being problematic, why would I want to trade my Babel, Dreamgirls and Training Day HD DVDs for the lower resolution audio of their BD counterparts? Similar situation with supplemental content not being available "in band" as intended on the Order Of the Phoenix and Blood Diamond BDs.

I second that mention of a hardware discount on a 2.0-compliant player being a much better (and less patronizing) idea. But gee, then there's the pesky issue of there not being very many of those.

 

[MikeH]

I agree it would probably be the easiest to do a send us a upc from your HD DVD player and get a coupon for $ off a BD player. A reasonable gesture and one I would take advantage of if possible.

I am one of the Christmas HD DVD people but really the only person I feel sorry for is my brother who thought me saying "I'll wait until the new year to see how things turn out" meant I don't want to pay for a new player and ended up buying me one as a present.

 

[Dave Anderson]

Or the studios go back to licensing their films out to companies like Image, Anchor Bay, Pioneer, etc., to do the transfers and releasing. Then the studios will just get a cut of the sales for basically no work on their part. Sure, we'll pay a premium, but I'll gladly pay for quality releases.

 

[Patrick.C]

The problem is, most people no longer have UPCs from their player boxes. Most sent them in for the 5 free discs offer.

I think if anything is going to happen, its going to be a software (not hardware) tradeout, funded mostly by the studios. You would bring in an HD-DVD and swap it for the same (or possibly a different) title in Blu - all at the retail level. It would help to ease the pain (and bitterness) of early adopters who went Red and it would get people in to retailers to, as the studio would hope, buy additional discs while they trade in their red ones. The retailers are happy because they get reimbursed for the trade-outs and hopefully sold some additional discs and perhaps a blu player at the same time. The customer still feels the pain of the HD-DVD equipment purchase, but at least he still has an upconverting DVD player and most, if not all, of his software library has been converted to Blu at little or no cost.

I don't think it will be hardware because the equipment manufacturers don't really have a reason to do it. They would probably look at it like "Why should we cover for Toshiba?". If Blu ends up being the only format, we will have no choice but to buy Blu players if we want to enjoy packaged HDM. On the software side, however, we have already given the studios money for their movies.

Now with all of that said, I don't think we'll see anything happen, despite Bill Hunt saying the idea was warmly received. I would love to see it happen, I just don't think it will.

 

[Robert Crawford]

A have doubts due to the expense it will cost those companies and the low units sold issue. Some of these titles will need to be restored plus a new HD transfer. It's possible, but the number of titles would be low due to those concerns and some studios not liking to license their assets like Warner.





Crawdaddy

 

[Clinton McClure]

The software trade-in doesn't hold water. If I already have a title on HD-DVD, I'm not going through the hassle to trade it in for a BR version. As long as my HD-DVD player still works, I'll watch that title on HD-DVD. If down the road the disc gives out, I'd pick up a copy on BR. A software swap is more of an insult than a peace offering. A hardware incentive would be a more attractive offer for people without a lot of disposable income.

 

[Cees Alons]

What would be the difference? It would still not sell very well.


Cees

 

[Dave Anderson]

I disagree.

Elite, Pioneer, Image, and Criterion all did this for many years. For 3 of the 4, film restoration and release onto laserdisc was their only business for quite some time. Image branched out; Elite and Criterion followed the market to DVD. The LD market was tiny. Prices were high, which justified the expense to a degree. With HD, the market is probably already bigger than LD ever was.

Warner did license their films to Image for distribution on laserdisc.

Anything is possible.

My point is, if it turns into a niche, there are companies who take over. And it's really not such a bad thing for enthusiasts. I do agree the output would be smaller, but such is life in the niche world.

 

[Dave Anderson]

The difference is, should the market become niche, we could have some great companies step in to continue getting us product.

It would still not sell very well, yes. Laserdisc never sold very well. Didn't stop me from enjoying laserdisc.

Did studios care about LD not selling very well? Nope, they continued to let Pioneer and Image release their product with runs as small as 500 pieces. Why would the studios care so much about sales if they were doing zero work? They were simply collecting a check from laserdisc distribution.