Setup help or upgrade help please.

Discussion in 'Beginners, General Questions' started by mysteryliner, May 17, 2012.

  1. mysteryliner

    mysteryliner Auditioning

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    Hi everyone
    I just moved and re-installed my old system. Due to the characteristics of the living room my old system isn't working to good. and due to it's age and everything connected to it I could really use some help, or some hints on what I should buy as an upgrade.
    ---------
    47" Philips tv
    Receiver: kenwood krf-v5050d (about 10years old)
    DVR/ digital tv decoder (toslink)
    LG blue ray (toslink)
    Apple tv (toslink)
    Band ridge optical switch
    Sonos system
    ---------
    So, Because I was forced to place my tv in a corner i didn't even bother to install my rear speakers since one Couch would have been right next to the left speaker and the other couch would haven been right next to the other speaker.
    So I'm only using subwoorfer, left, center, right.
    One of the problems Is the distance from the speakers to the couches.
    ( couch 1 is closer to left speaker)
    ( Couch 2 closer to the right)
    So how can I fine tune this???
    Second problem is that I don't hear enough from the low tones (bass)
    It is ok (or sometimes even to much) with explosions, gunshots, etc. but others sounds like voice, environment is to high!
    .i really hope someone can help me out here or advice me on what I all-in-one system I could buy.
    Thanks for helping out.
     
  2. Adam Gregorich

    Owner

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    Welcome to Home Theater Forum. We do require that users have a real first name on their account, so if you could please update that in your profile that would be great. What speakers do you have? Depending on the quality of your existing speakers and all in one might be a bad choice as you already have speakers and a Blu-ray player. Upgrading your receiver would let you better fine tune your sound, add in dynamic range compression (a fix for your second problem) and allow you to really upgrade the sound from your Blu-ray player since it could handle losses audio which your toslink hook-up can't.
     
  3. Jim Mcc

    Jim Mcc Producer

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    I agree. The first thing I would do is upgrade the receiver.
     
  4. mysteryliner

    mysteryliner Auditioning

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    i upgraded my profile,
    the speakers i have are the once that came with the receiver (kenwood):
    5x KS-205ht - 100W
    SW-39ht - 70w
    (but I'm not using the 2rear because i don't know how to calibrate it in this room)
    I was thinking about possibly getting a receiver+Blue ray combo(+HDMI inputs, +inputs for SOnos & DVR/decoder) so i would have less wires.
    But looks like you advice against that.
    What exactly is wrong with toslink?
     
  5. Jim Mcc

    Jim Mcc Producer

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    Toslink limits you to Dolby Digital, but it will still sound good. You cannot take advantage of the new HD sound on Blu-rays. No, I would not recommend that you buy a HTIB. What is your budget for a new receiver and Blu-ray? You can buy a nice Panasonic Blu-ray player for $150 or less(depending on the features you need). I have the Pan. 220 and it's a great player. I would upgrade the receiver to one with enough HDMI inputs for your gear, and buy a Blu-ray player. The new receiver will allow you to take advantage of the new HD sound, connect all your components, then run the minumum amount of cables to your TV. If all your components have HDMI, you would only need to run one HDMI cable from receiver out to TV. Also, a new receiver will allow you to properly calibrate all your speakers in the room.
     
  6. mysteryliner

    mysteryliner Auditioning

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    Don't really have a budget. i'll buy what gets the job done. (reasonably priced of course.. no $ 3000 receiver for a simple living room) :rolleyes:
    My problem is that a new receiver wont fix the fact that there are 2 seats
    [​IMG]
    (hope the image comes through)
    So one person would need the left speaker to be -4dB
    While the person on the other couch will need the other speaker to be -4dB
    Same for the rear speakers: one person is 10ft. from the speakers
    While the other person is sitting right underneath them.
    So is there a solution that might work in my case??
    Maybe more of in the range of 2.1 or 3.1system (if that exists)
     
  7. Adam Gregorich

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    I would look at something like the Denon AVR-2113CI or the previous model the AVR-2112CI which Amazon is closing out for just over $400. Before taking the plunge you will want to verify that they have enough inputs for your gear. If your display and sources all have HDMI then you should be good to go. Either of these models would work fine in a 2.1, 3.1, 5.1 or 7.1 configuration and have pretty sophisticated room EQ software. It would also leave you some room in your budget for doing some speaker upgrades if you want.
     
  8. Jim Mcc

    Jim Mcc Producer

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    A TV in a corner is the absolute worse place for it. I must ask, is there any other location that you can put the TV? If so, that's the first thing I would do. If you can get it out of the corner, speaker placement would be much better.
     
  9. mysteryliner

    mysteryliner Auditioning

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    i'm kinda interested in the AVR-1713 because of the location/calibration via smartphone. Is this worth the extra money?
    The AVR-21xx seems overkill with it's 7.1! Since i'm probably gonna use 3.1 not even gonna use 5.1.
    Will my current speakers be enough?
    ---------------------------------
    (data from manual)
    speakers (5x)
    System: 1 way (magnetically shielded L,C,R)
    enclosure: Bass reflex
    Loudspeaker: 100mm(4") Cone type (full ranged type)
    Nom. impedance: 8ohm
    Nom. input power: 50w
    Max. input power: 100w
    Sensitivity: 83dB / W @ 1 m
    freq. response: 100 Hz ~ 20,000 Hz
    Dimensions: -W 128mm (5-1/16")- -H 198mm (7-13/16")- -D 126mm (4-15/16")-
    weight: 0.9kg (2.0 lb)
    SUBwoofer:
    enclosure: Bass-reflex, floor standing type
    dynamic power: 100w (6ohm)
    rated pwr (FTC): 75w RMS @ 6ohm 100 hz, no more than 0,7 % T.H.D.
    input sensitivity: 300 mV (37k ohm)
    freq. response: 25Hz ~ 160Hz
    Dimensions: -W 210mm (8-1/4")- -H 400mm (15-3/4")- -D 373mm (14-11/16")-
    Weight: 10kg (22.1 lb)
    ---------------------------------
    @Jim mc: the tv can't be moved because then one couch will be to close to the tv.
    And also, this would not change the problem: in a optimal speaker locations: one person is sitting right next to the left speaker.
    While the other person is sitting in the rear of the room, close to the rear surrounds.
    I See no possible way to calibrate this..
    thx again
     
  10. Jason Charlton

    Jason Charlton Ambassador

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    Is it at all possible to calibrate a system in such a way as every person in every location in the room hears things identically?

    No.

    Plain and simple.

    When you calibrate a system you calibrate to a "sweet spot" which is where things will sound ideal. The farther you move away from the sweet spot, the more unbalanced the system will sound.

    Now, the advantage of a newer receiver with an advanced calibration system (such as Audyssey) is that the calibration process creates a "larger" sweet spot than older, more primitive calibration systems. In fact, the process for conducting a calibration with the better versions of Audyssey involves placing the microphone at several locations which help establish a "range" for the calibration's sweet spot.

    In your case, even with the latest and greatest calibration tools out there, it's unlikely that you'll be able to maximize the experience for EVERY SINGLE seat in the house. As I mentioned, for larger rooms, that's simply impossible, but for most of your viewers/listeners the results will be decent - certainly better than the TV speakers.

    If the thought of ANY unbalanced listening position in your room is too much for you to handle, then you really have a conflict of priorities and you'll need to sort that out yourself.

    Best of luck.
     
  11. Martino

    Martino Supporting Actor

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    Looking at the picture....If you want better sound - you could move some furniture around...
    - Is it possible to move the 2 person couch from besides the fire place to in front of the window? Could put an end table between the two couches...
    - Then move the bookcase over to the wall - next to the 2 person couch...
    - Then move the TV to the center of the wall that used to contain the bookcase...
    - then you can spread out your left and right channel speakers - giving yourself a larger sound stage.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. mysteryliner

    mysteryliner Auditioning

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    All i want is to get a pleasant experience for everyone. I understand that it is impossible to get optimal conditions in this situation. (now person A hears 70% left speaker , person B 80% right)
    A- There is a radiator against that wall. the couch has a full backside (closed from the bottom up to a height of 107cm / 3.5 ft)
    If the couch is placed there, the window sill & couch would trap the heat. (& couch sticks out infront of the other one
    If i make a gap between the radiator & couch, the 2p. couch would be infront of the 3p. couch even more (losing 1place to sit)... Moving the 3p couch would pretty much block off the door.
    would have been perfect otherwise :(
    -------------------
    What is the advised (MinimuM) distance between the Left an Right speaker?
    If i would place them closer towards each other & near the TV,
    The problem with the range to the couches would not be so bad.
    And would there be any use to installing one unified rear channel (perhaps in the corner above the door)
    Thanks again, and sorry. I know i'm a handful. :rolleyes:
     
  13. Martino

    Martino Supporting Actor

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    Will try again....trying to get 5 people to have a good seat in a small theater room....and try to get rid of the bad corner placement that is not good for the sound...
    Given that we can't move the 2 person couch....have another idea:
    [​IMG]
    What if you bought a new, smaller recliner (R in the picture)...and put it in front of the window/heater unit. Move the speakers, TV and bookshelf as before. Then, 1 person can lay down on the 2 person couch (head on the X) )and still see/hear everything....while the 4 others (3 on the big couch, 1 in the new chair) can enjoy better sound.
    3 people on the big couch will have the best sound, followed by the new chair person....only the 1 person in the 2 person non-movable couch will be too close to the left speaker...
     
  14. mysteryliner

    mysteryliner Auditioning

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    We moved to tv to the center of that wall to test for a few days. (fingers crossed)
    Today i will try to look around for a new receiver.
    should i look around for a kit? (receiver + speakers)
    Or keep my current speakers?
     
  15. gene c

    gene c Producer

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    Most all receivers are 7.1 except for the very entry level models.
    I would also replace the speakers. Kenwood was an electronics company. Speakers were more of an after-thought for them. Are you looking for towers or bookshelves? Bookshelves are the better value but towers seem to be more popular. I like them too. Browse the Speaker Forum for recommendations on them and subwoofers, which you should get from a different company than the speakers (usually). The Dayton subs from Partsexpress.com are the entry level models with the BIC F12 next in line. Then comes Lava, Elemental Designs, HSU, SVS and a couple of others I can't remmember at the moment. The Polk Monitors from Newegg are a real good value for speakers but there are many others to choose from.
     
  16. mysteryliner

    mysteryliner Auditioning

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    I've always preferred Bookshelves, easier to tuck away on top of a bookcase or screw in the top corner of a room.
    Strange, I would have suspected it would be preferred to get all from the same Co.
    i.e. Speakers from company X aren't the best around at lower freq. ranges. But they calibrated the Sub to punch some more in that region.
    Guess i learned some more today.
     
  17. Martino

    Martino Supporting Actor

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    I would add you would be better of getting stands for the speakers if you can....try to get the tweeter level at your ear height when you are sitting down...
    Do you have a budget for your bookshelf speakers?
    Here are a couple of examples to check out...without knowing your budget - will give you a low budget and a mid budget suggestion.....
    $100.00 a pair Pioneer seem to be a good budget speaker...
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405
    Reviewed here:
    http://hometheaterreview.com/pioneer-sp-bs21-lr-bookshelf-loudspeaker-reviewed/
    I'm getting 4 of these $149.00 each speakers for my latest project...getting all 4 corners matching, and will throw in their matching center channel as well...
    http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hb-1.html
    Reviewed here:
    http://hometheaterreview.com/hsu-research-hb-1-mk2-bookshelf-loudspeaker-reviewed/
    On this system - I'm going with a sub from Epic - even though hsu is known more for their subs than their speakers...
    http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html
     
  18. gene c

    gene c Producer

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    Martino is correct about keeping the tweeter at least somewhere near ear level. Up in the corners of the room might sound like a good idea but certain sounds, such as vocals, shouldn't eminate from that high up. And the theory about putting bookshelf speakers actually on a bookshelf is the bass frequencies will sound "boomy", particularly if the speaker is rear ported. But I have a pair of speakers in a location that might get me thrown off the forum if I addmitted where they were :blush: , but they really don't sound that bad at all so sometimes going against convention doesn't result in total chaos.
    As for the sub coming from the same brand, the sub and the other speakers really don't produce the same tones because of the crossover so it really doesn't matter which company you buy it from if it's properly setup. And while it seems to make sence that the sub from the same brand would intigrate better with the other speakers the fact is subwoofers are almost an after-thought for most speaker manufactures (there are exceptions but usually expensive ones). It's better to buy the sub from a company that made it's name by making them like HSU, SVS, Elemental Designs, etc.
     

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