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Setting Up a Pioneer DV-45A (1 Viewer)

Bipin_P

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Mar 2, 2002
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I have the 47Ai connected to a Rotel RSP-1066. The sub-woofer setting using the multichannel input comes out to -6 on the RSP 1066 with the level on the 47Ai set to 0dB. This is the exact same setting as my Sony SCD-C222ES CD/SACD player. I have the speakers set to small with a 80Hz crossover on the pre/pro.
 

Brian L

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I have the 47Ai connected to a Rotel RSP-1066. The sub-woofer setting using the multichannel input comes out to -6 on the RSP 1066 with the level on the 47Ai set to 0dB. This is the exact same setting as my Sony SCD-C222ES CD/SACD player. I have the speakers set to small with a 80Hz crossover on the pre/pro.
I am a bit confused.

Are you connecting the 47i to the 1066 via the 5.1 analog outs, or via a digital connection, or both?

Not knowing the 1066, does it do bass management on the 6CH inputs?

If so, you would have the 47i set to all speakers large and sub off to use the BM in the pre/pro, yes?

Just want to make sure we are not talking alpples to oranges.

BL
 

Bipin_P

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I am using both the 5.1 analoag as well as coax digital connections. I am able to get good bass from both 5.1 and digital inputs. The setting I posted is for the multi-channel inputs.

The 1066 does have bass management on the 6.1 inputs, but it has some limitations. I am doing bass management on the DV47Ai. I have all speakers set to small with the sub on on both the DVD player and the pre/pro. The RSP 1066 also has a sub level control for the multichannel input. I have that set at -6 dB after calibrating using the DVD players' test tone.
 

morrisjones

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Mar 11, 1999
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I can confirm the missing Dolby Pro Logic decoding in the 45a. It caught me by surprise when my wife and I sat down to watch a movie with the 45a and a new Rotel 1065 receiver.

The surprise was that the movie wasn't in 5.1. Which was no great loss -- it wasn't that kind of movie (God's and Monsters).

No big deal, just switch the receiver to decode from the digital input instead of the external in.

That was just before my new receiver decided to go postal on me -- but that's a different story. (Luckily no speakers were damaged in the process!)

Mojo
 

Brian L

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OK, I took some voltage measurements of the center channel output in comparison to the subwoofer output. I used three different sets of test tones; Avia Guide to Home Theatre DVD (Dolby Digital), Ultimate DVD Silver Edition (also DD), and the Sheffield "My Disc" CD which has 1/3 octave test tones from 20 Hz up to 20Khz.

Measurements were taken with a Fluke Digital VOM set to measure AC. Again, the 45A was set to fixed output, with all speakers small, sub on.

Here are the results:

Avia
Center - .116vac
Sub - .024vac

Ultimate DVD
Center - .190vac
Sub - .034vac

Sheffield
For this two channel CD, I measured the right front channel compared to the subwoofer. I tested with a 200Hz tone and a 50 Hz tone. This was based on the assumption that the crossover was around 80 Hz or so, such that a 50 Hz tone should be predominately from the sub output.

200Hz Tone - Right Front Output - .200vac
50Hz Tone - Subwoofer Output - .08vac

Since the manual states that the players output is 200mV (I assume that is based on a full range signal), these measurements clearly show the problem, and why I need to goose my sub input as well as the sub amp.

FTR, I have had some correspondence with Pioneer, and they advised me that they took some measurements of a couple 45A's they had in house and did not see the problem. That explains why not everyone with a 45A or a 47i reports the issue.

I passed to them these measurements and await thier response.

The good news is, its not an issue with my setput. Now the question is how will this be resolved.

BL
 

Tim Schwartz

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Oct 3, 2002
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Thanks Brian,

That defines the problem without any doubt. I knew something was amiss with my player. The other issue I've run into is that my Marantz RC-2000 remote can't learn the codes of the DV-47Ai. Oh well, life could be much worse.
 

morrisjones

Agent
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Mar 11, 1999
Messages
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I noticed that my Pronto wouldn't learn any codes from the DV-45a remote as well. How interesting. Hmmm.

I tried a component file from remotecentral for the DV-37 (if I recall) and it worked great. So I'm happy.

Mojo
 

Kevin C Brown

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I tried this on my player. I only had to bump up the sub by 2 dB on the Pioneer's menu to get it to read right. So mine must not have the problem. Here's how I did it just in case I did something wrong:

Outlaw 950, using the analog bass management (80 Hz x-over) on the 5.1 analog inputs. Vs digital bass management (60 Hz x-over). The 45a with all speakers as large, and sub present.

I had already balanced levels using the internal 950 generator. (My system isn't "referenced", just "levelled": LF 0dB, center -1dB, RF 0dB, RS -1dB, rear center -9dB, LS -2dB, sub - 3dB.)

I compared that to Avia using a digital DD signal. (Very, very close actually.)

I compared that to using the 5.1 analog outs on the DVD player, into the 950 engaging 6 channel bypass mode. That's where I only had to set the sub to +2 dB to get it to mesh with everything else. So I guess that's a 5 dB swing...
 

Brian L

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I tried this on my player. I only had to bump up the sub by 2 dB on the Pioneer's menu to get it to read right. So mine must not have the problem.
Agreed. Looks like this is a hit or miss thing on both 45 and 47 players.

FWIW, I sent my readings to the Pioneer folks late yesterday afternoon. I am curious what they will suggest.

I am still within my 30 day window for returns, so I am thinking that I will go back to my dealer and swap it for a new one....seems that it would be even money whether or not it will have the problem.

If it does, I think I will stand pat until Pioneer comes out with a fix or an explanation (perhaps something unexpected that needs be set in the set-up).

Since the Elite stuff has a 2 year warranty, that ought to give them enough time to sort this out.

FTR, after my initial disappointment with the 800# support folks, I have had a very productive exchange with them via e-mail. They do seem to understand that I know what I am talking about, and seem genuinely interested in understanding the problem.

As an aside, I asked if they knew the crossover frequency when all speakers are small/sub on. They admitted that they did not know, but were still looking, however, they opined that they expect it will be between 100 and 200 Hz, which has been their standard. I sure hope its not that high. 80Hz would be optimal in my case.

I could check it with my Sheffield CD if I were so inclined, but I think I am just going to stand back at the moment!

BL
 
Joined
Aug 12, 1999
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Morris,

I had no problems programming my Pronto - If you'd like a copy of my CCF file (in case you are missing anything), email me.


Brian,

I'd be shocked if the crossover is much above 100hz; if it is, I'm gonna schedule a hearing test for myself.


Craig
 

Kevin C Brown

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BL- Let us know what the crossover is when you find out. (I'm guessing 120 Hz. :) )
I have a discrete test tone disc, and if I get can my sorry butt motivated, I'll try to find out too...
 

Hartwig Hanser

Second Unit
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Oct 9, 1998
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Kevin and BL:

please, please try to find out the crossover. You would do a great service to people like me who contemplate buying this player.
 

Brian L

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Bad news......

Just got a brand new player, and it performs exactly like the old one.......sub output is way down.

I did pass the info on to Pioneer. I re-read one of my e-mails from them, and the units they checked in-house were described as "samples". Don't know if that means they are not actual production units or not, but I asked if they could perhaps pull one out of a warehouse somewhere and measure it.

I also told my dealer exactly what was wrong with the unit, so hopefully their bench tech can confirm the problem and communicate with Pioneer through official channels.

And to add insult to injury, I left my brand new Beauty and the Beast DVD in the player I returned...DOHHHHHHH!

Back to the dealer before my 4 1/2 year old daughter screams for my head!

BL
 

TanD

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Sep 12, 2001
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let me give you my observation on the external out on my DVD-Audio (denon3800) and sony 555ES SACD player, both players output 10db on the subout LOWER than the other channel. I have to setup my receiver with +10db extra on the external in.

Hope this help.
 

Brian L

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Damn.....had a nice detailed post, and when I sent it, got the "Server Unavailable" message!

Oh well, the short story:

Don't have the serial numbers handy, but I recall that the build dates were both July 2002.

Pioneer said they were going to contact my dealer, and let me know if/when they reach a determination. Could be several weeks before I hear anything.

TanD: You're scaring me, dude!

I sure hope that this is not just "the way they all work" as far as sub vs. main channel levels. It certainly is NOT what my two previous 5.1 decoder's did. which is why I thought something was amiss!

And I really don't see a reason why there should be a difference.

Oh well, the saga continues.

BL
 

TanD

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I am 100% sure those are my player's reading (I try with 2 different type of receiver, same reading).
I think that's something to do with the bass for Dobly Digital 5.1 movie with 10db higher on the .1, and not for the music. So that explain why on DVD-Audio, SACD with 10db lower on the .1 output (if we use the internal decoder of the player).
sure hope that this is not just "the way they all work" as far as sub vs. main channel levels. It certainly is NOT what my two previous 5.1 decoder's did. which is why I thought something was amiss!
Your previous tww 5.1 decoder is for DD right not DVD-A,
and SACD.
look at some info on this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ght=denon+3800
 

Kevin C Brown

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Brian- Hmmm, mine is July 2002 too. A bud of mine is also July 2002, but he doesn't have his 5.1 analog cables yet, so I couldn't test his...
 

Brian L

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Brian- Hmmm, mine is July 2002 too. A bud of mine is also July 2002, but he doesn't have his 5.1 analog cables yet, so I couldn't test his...
Actually, if you has a digital voltmeter (I know only tech geeks would have one around, but in my day job, I do tech support for a company that makes digital temp control systems), he can measure the output right off of the player (you can just plug in an interconnect to make it easy).

If its like my players, you will see about a big difference between the sub and any one of the main channels.

BL
 

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