Season Finale!!!!! Sopranos Show #13 "WhiteCaps" (1 Viewer)

[Paul Jenkins]

This is your interpretation

no, actually it comes from the show's creator....

 

[Carl Miller]

no, actually it comes from the show's creator....

Chase has said many things about the show since it began. In a Salon interview he did indeed call it a family drama, but he also had this to say:

"I want to tell the story about the reality of being a mobster -- or what I perceive to be the reality of life in organized crime. They aren't shooting each other every day. They sit around eating baked ziti and betting and figuring out who owes who money. Occasionally, violence breaks out -- more often than it does in the banking world, perhaps."

Chase himself doesn't view this show with an absolute definition as to what it's about. By your way of thinking, he doesn't understand what the show is about either.

Simple fact of the matter is that I understand the show just fine, as do you. We just find different aspects of the show more enjoyable. I find the storylines revolving around the mob family much more interesting. You may not.
There are no absolutes here, and this is probably what makes the Sopranos so good.

 

[Jason_Els]

The only parallels between The Sopranos and The Godfather are the mob? Hello, no.
Tony is taking the same path Michael has, right down to threatening his wife with his mob power. Both lost their personal families while trying to keep their mob family together. Like Michael, Tony wants both but doesn't want to play by the rules. The one thing that made Vito Corleone successful was his ability to balance both and, as he put it, "spend time with your family." Vito had the right priorities, never letting the power give him the idea that he could play around to the extent of ignoring his home life the way Tony has and Michael had. It seems the only way to manage both is to be disciplined. To survive you must follow the rules.
What has surprised me is Tony's unending affection for Chris. Chris isn't even related to Tony except by marriage and even then he's not a close relative to Carmella. Like Michael did with Vincent, so Tony's doing with Chris, passing on power to a questionable relative other than his kids in hopes they won't get involved.
Anyone notice how easily Janice could become a Connie?

 

[JonZ]

Good post Jason. I believe Chris will be the head of the family when the show ends.
Someone earlier mentioned that nothing came out of his drug addiction, but he did realize how he let everyone down especially Tony and I think he will play a big part in next season. I believe we're seeing the beginning of the discipline youre talking about.
It was funny to see him doing situps

 

[Thomas H G]

I thought that the other family -mob- would see Tony's divorce as a weakness. Perhaps there's an attempt on his life next season? I think so.

 

[Tommy Ceez]

Do any of you guys like the Godfather movies? That was as much about family problems as the Sopranos.

Can someone remind me of the scene in the Godfather where Michael agonizes over his daughter dropping out of school to travel europe? Godfather was a mafia procedural. The layers upon layers of intrigue and plotting are far more involved in any crap the Sopranos puts forth. OK Im sorry, you PREFERED to have a season end with an unknown character and his wife on thier deck than, maybe a scene with Johnny trying to convince Carmine to off Tony? GIVE ME A BREAK! Ladies and Gentelmen! Introducing the Chase Apologists!

 

[Michael Reuben]

Introducing the Chase Apologists!

No apologies are necessary. Some of us genuinely enjoyed this season.

M.

 

[MikeDeVincenzo]

As I stated earlier this season in this thread, the Sopranos has moved into new areas, and either you like the evolution, or you don't.


I can't really see the point though in moaning about it over and over again though. Simply put, if you want a show about whacking and counter-whacking as its centerpiece, The Sopranos ain't gonna be your bag anymore. Its over. Happily, there are plenty of places to find entertainment with violence front and center, and you won't have to look very long and hard for it.


And there's always watching the early episodes on DVD.

 

[Wayne W]

I have only watched the latest season, but I really loved it. I'll eventually buy the DVDs for S1-3 and catch up. I really enjoyed the season. The only thing even remotely related to the Sopranos that is boring is all bitching and moaning from some of the people in this forum.

 

[Brett Jason]

The actors that play Furio and Ralphie were on MSNBC last night and one interesting note was that Joe Pantoliano (sp) was talking about the scene where Tony killed him and he said that Ralphie didn't even kill the horse. I assumed he did, but maybe it's up for interpretation, but he didn't think it was.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Joe Pantoliano (sp) was talking about the scene where Tony killed him and he said that Ralphie didn't even kill the horse

He also swore up and down, before the season aired, that Ralphie would survive it. You just can't trust Joey Pants.
M.

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Hi everybody,
I've kept out of the Sopranos discussion until now because my feelings about this season have been mixed and I didn't want to post something I would later regret. But at this point I have no problem declaring the last season BORING. I agree with the other posters here that it looks like a year's worth of material has been stretched over two or three seasons.
What bothers me most is not the lack of violence, but the lack of RESOLUTION. Plot lines are brought up, then developed, and finally are either 1) forgotten 2) pushed off to the side for months and months 3) drawn out ridiculously for months and months or 4) fizzle out with no resultion at all. In the first two seasons, actions had consequences, and each episode flowed into the next.
EXAMPLES: AJ's rich girlfriend - seen once then forgotten
Artie's attempts to be a tough guy - one episode then nothing
Paulie's mother in Green Grove - very funny subplot was abandoned after an episode or two
Christopher's heroin - this was a major subplot developed over the course of one year. The "payoff" of this plot was the excellent intervention scene. Otherwise I have no idea why so much time was wasted on this. Now Chris is out of rehab and everything is back to normal. Angry Star Trek fans call this "pushing the reset button"
Not one but TWO hits on supporting charactes were CALLED OFF AT THE LAST MINUTE. In the case of Johnny's hit on Ralph, I have no idea why this happened. This situation was developed then fizzled out without resolution. Someone's finger is on the reset button again
Paulie cozying up with Johnny Sack - someone pushes the reset button and he goes running back to Tony
Carmella & Furio - please

 

[Frank_M]

I enjoyed this season as much as I did each of 1-3... because it really was the natural result of what had come before it.

This whole season has been about the isolation of Tony, taking away his families, bringing him down to the level of scared animal.

Now, as we end the season - He is separated from his wife, apart from his kids, is down to just TWO people in his "other" family that he trusts (and Sil he questions, and Chrissy he still can't be sure of), and has called off his relationship with Melfi. Shoot, even his BOAT wasn't there for him when he needed a place to sleep!

And as for the animal thing... what was it that caused him to kill Ralphie? A horse. What was it that caused him to REALLY get angry at Chris in the intervention? Was it his H use? No... it was that he killed the DOG. Very cool.

Where is it going to go from here? Who knows. I mean, we know Melfi will be back, and play a pivital role in the final season (after not having much to do for seasons 3-4). But other than that... we don't know. And what more can you ask of a quality program than telling you a story about characters you care about, and not telegraphing a mile away where it is going?

Oh, as for the "whacking." The best ones are the ones that have come in context. Ralphie. Richie. Those were sudden. And while we expected them, we never expected them at THAT MOMENT. But the ultimate "death" in the series was of the marriage on this final episode. And no one saw that coming. And it WAS powerful.

 

[Colin-H]

Things like AJ's rich girlfriend and Artie's attempts to be a tough guy are never meant to be major plot threads, and Paulie's mother in Green Grove was meant to be about Paulie, not his mother. We saw Paulie send thugs to kick the crap out of a high school friend of his, which evolved into Paulie killing one of his mother's friends for her life savings. If you go back and watch the first three seasons, I guarantee you'll find similar "abandoned" threads.

 

[CharlesD]

Things like AJ's rich girlfriend and Artie's attempts to be a tough guy are never meant to be major plot threads, and Paulie's mother in Green Grove was meant to be about Paulie, not his mother. We saw Paulie send thugs to kick the crap out of a high school friend of his, which evolved into Paulie killing one of his mother's friends for her life savings. If you go back and watch the first three seasons, I guarantee you'll find similar "abandoned" threads.

Similarly with Paulie and Johnny Sack, Paulie realizes that Carmine has no idea who he is and there for that Sack has been playing him all along. Paulie tries to get back in with Tony because he no longer has the "out" of going over to NY with Carmine's protection. No "reset button" here either.

 

[JonZ]

"In the case of Johnny's hit on Ralph, I have no idea why this happened. This situation was developed then fizzled out without resolution."

Watch the episode again. When Johnnie busts his wife in the basement with the candy he realized she had been lying to him about her dieting.

AJs rich g/f has been shown a few times and will probally be around again.(Not that anyone cares)

Paulies mother subplot was shown again last week. I think this was used as a way to show Paulies dissatisfaction with Tony. The home is expensive and Paulie was feeling overlooked and felt he should be making more.Hence his gripes with Ralph. The groundwork for this began last season.

Christophers heroin was finally brought to conlusion. He hurt and lied to the person who trusted and believed in him most - Tony was giving him alot of responsibility. He HADTO clean up. Finally thats happened.

As far as Paulie and Johnnie,thats is self explanatory - Paulie realized he was being played. I cant wait until Paulie and Johnnie face off over John lying to him.

Carmella and Furio - ok, Imwith u guys on that one.

We all know the calling off of the Carmine whacking will come back to haunt Tony. Carmine will hear of the planning (through Johnnie) and it start trouble next season.

Im suprised by some of the comments though.Each season has had some filler- Chris and the Screenplay/acting,Meadows relationships from last season,etc. This IS a show about BOTH of Tonys families. There have been quite a few episodes focusing on the troubled Soprano family life -AJ,Meadows and Carmella's troubles and Tonys relationships with them (especially Carm and Meadow).

Again, my only gripe was no followup for Paulie for the Russian incident, but I think we'll see that season, when the consequences are he gets whacked by them for it.

 

[Rob Gardiner]

Charles,

Similarly with Paulie and Johnny Sack, Paulie realizes that Carmine has no idea who he is and there for that Sack has been playing him all along. Paulie tries to get back in with Tony because he no longer has the "out" of going over to NY with Carmine's protection. No "reset button" here either.

Hmmm what I mean by the "reset button" is this: the writers have dangled this plot thread in front of us for some time. Will Paulie betray Tony, go to the New York crew, etc. After the situation has played out, the status quo is maintained. Paulie's standing with Tony at the end of Season 4 no different than it was at the end of Season 3. Well, maybe slightly different (if I'm correct Paulie started getting "grumpy" with Tony before the end of S3) but on the whole this plotline seemes like wasted space.



Jon,

I'm aware of the scene you describe in the basement. I understand that this is the event that caused him to call off the hit. However I do not know WHY. Why does the fact that his wife has been lying about her diet make Ralphie's comment any less disrespectful?


Perhaps I'm being too hard on the show. I do hold it to a higher standard because in past years it has been by far the BEST thing on the boob tube. There were a lot of great little moments this season and even a few good episodes. I just don't think the season 'gels' together very well.

 

[Dustin_Taylor]

Hey guys,

Here’s my $.02.

First, my thoughts on S4. Compared to S1-3 this season did not live up to the standards set by the previous 3. That said, I still enjoyed it more than anything else I’ve seen on TV this fall.

Here’s my problems with S4.

Plots that the writers let wither away. This goes back to S3. Remember the Russian in the woods? Where is Sasha in all this? Now, first episode, S4. Chris kills the cop who supposedly killed his father. He robs the guy before exiting. We find out in the episode that money the cop had on him was marked. Chris pins a dollar from this to his Mom’s fridge, and the episode ends with camera doing a close up of the dollar w/music playing. I do not recall it being mentioned again. Maybe it was in a passing conversation of the FBI agents, but if it was, I missed it. Just one example of many.

Where the heck has Melfi been? The sessions she has with T, and how he uses her advice in situations, is a great element of the show not used this season for the most part.

The season ends with Johnny Sack being hostile again toward Tony, and now Walnuts is the good soldier. Like a previous poster said, it seems some things are just getting respun. I would have preferred more resolution here. They could do a ton next year with T and JS getting into big trouble with the NY families. Or, JS gets it and T is dealing w/Carmine. Whatever happened to resolve this, it should have happened in the second to last episode.

My thoughts on the finale.

While I was hoping for a bit more this year, this episode was brilliant, truly finale worthy. I know I just said I wanted more resolution with the whole JS/Carmine thing for the season, but what happened in this episode far outshined anything else. The super-intense salvos fired back and forth between T and Carm were extremely gutwrenching. This was some of the best acting I have ever seen, especially Falco. All I can say is WOW, and I usually don’t like melodramatic BS. Short of whacking T, the separation of T and Carm is THE event that will have a seismic impact on future episodes.

For those saying this was not a good finale, I disagree. The finales for S1-3 did not have an impact on the show the way this will. In fact, I thought last year’s finale was a complete waste of time. Jackie Jr. got whacked, but that was painfully obvious after the card game the week before. The writers took the easy road there. They drew that season out 1 episode too far.

Lots of interesting observations in this thread, please feel free to critique mine.

Dustin

 

[CharlesD]

After the situation has played out, the status quo is maintained.

But is it though? Tony no longer trusts Paulie like he used to. As Paulie himself mentions to Silvio, things have been going downhill for him since the Russian in the woods incident, and once Tony figured out that it was Paulie talking to Johnny Sack, Paulie was basically out of the inner circle.

As far as Christophers drug problem goes.. he clean for now. He only just got out of rehab, and the touchy-feely intervention leader guy mentioned the high relapse rate for H.... He could easily fall back into bad habits down the road. Frankly I'll be surprised if he makes it to the end of the series. The bit with him deciding that maybe it would not be a good idea to apologize to all the people he wronged when on drugs was hilarious, and he basically had his former dealers whacked, he must of known they would not be allowed to live no matter what happened with Carmine.

I for one don't need to see every "plot line" resolved in a meaningful and timely fashion. Some things in life that seem significant at the time end up not having a lasting effect. Some of these incidents have a small incremental effects on the dynamics of the characters and serve the needs of individual episodes.

Some of my favorite episodes have been ones that could stand alone from the series such as the one where Tony takes Meadow to look at colleges and runs into an old accomplice turned snitch, or the Pine Barrens episode. I can accept that the Russian is dead in the woods somewhere and the Russian mob don't associate his disappearance with the Soprano crew if it means great episodes like that one.

 

[Shawn C]

One of the biggest plot threads they have left hanging is the attempted whacking of the Russian in the woods. I know they mentioned it during the intervention scene, but that's still pretty weak.