Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (4 Viewers)

[FanCollector]

The command chair was a fun piece of trivia. Of course, Sulu had been in command before, but I never thought about him actually getting the chair.I never knew before the Cushman book that NBC actually asked for one more episode than they were able to deliver. I felt strangely cheated at the knowledge...of the three extra episodes made, two were Errand of Mercy and The City on the Edge of Forever. What might that extra one have been? (Yeah, I read the memos on prepared scripts. It probably would just have been Amok Time, but I can dream...)That joke about asking Coon from which planet Klingons hail is funny. But the name really jumped out and now we have Klingon operas, so I hope Gene Coon is laughing somewhere. My biggest surprise in this chapter was just at reading Justman's low regard for the episode. Just shows that almost no episode is universally well-regarded.

 

[Nelson Au]

Lee, it would have been neat to know if there had been another episode in the works other then Amok Time. I must have missed the memo with Justman's lack of enthusiasm for Errand of Mercy. I'll have to have another look.Kling was funny! I like the eventual Klingon home world name Qo'noS.Regarding Amok Time, I'm glad it wasn't filmed till the second season. I've been doing an audio marathon of the second season, and I was thinking of your question Lee about any new conclusions or themes I thought of after my marathon of the third season. After hearing about 90% of it and several episodes I don't see that often, there were things that come screaming out. Nothing I never knew before, but things that really stood out when you compare to the third season. The episodes I had issues were where the ones I actually had a new appreciation for. What I noticed was there was a lot more action and fist-to-cuffs out and out fights and brawls for Shatner to partake in! There was a lot of examination of the Prime Directive. The humor was really ramped up as I mentioned in the I, Mudd example. The issues I had where episodes like A Piece of the Action. I didn't like how literal it is. But listening to it, if the Iotians really used the Book, then I guess every detail would be exactly like the 1930's Chicago. And it seems like a commentary on fandom, even though at the time, it wasn't meant to be. I can get the humor in it now, even though I knew it before, I wasn't appreciating it. I appreciate I, Mudd now because they had fun with it. After all the great first season shows, I wasn't as appreciative of the fun stuff. In listening to the dialogue from Who Mourns for Adonais, what I thought was a too literal visual execution, I can understand the reasons why Apollo would keep the visual trappings of the Greeks as they were at the time. He did what he did so Kirk and crew could identify with it. Bread and Circuses I really like, and I could overlook a planet that was a complete Roman replica of Earth. I liked the concept of Wolf in the Fold a lot even though it was not a favorite. And Nimoy has such a handle on Spock, he's able to play up the humor with Kelley.Okay, about Trivia. I'm still working on it. I don't think Scotty had any previous meetings with Marvik. Or Spock had any past contact with Daystrom. Uhura never met her crewman before as he was a creation of Nancy. The answer is probably an obvious one! I'm still trying, so I prefer to not have any clues yet, unless Scott needs one.

 

[FanCollector]

No hints until you ask, beyond the fact that I only have one episode remaining. And I do agree with all your dismissals of those other cases.

Everyone refers to the various parallel planet situations in the second season, but your observation about the focus on the Prime Directive is very well-taken. It does seem to be examined most closely in that second year. The Earth parallels don't generally bother me because I think we have the benefit now of watching them in any order we wish, and that allows as much distance as necessary between those parallel stories. It might have seemed worse to me in 1967-68, if I had been there to see them in broadcast order with no choice. The only one that is really hard for me to accept is Bread and Circuses because there is no reasonable explanation for the specificity of the parallels. I like a lot of things about Bread and Circuses, but the premise does baffle me.

The humor is unquestionably a more significant part of the mix in the second year, not only in the three comedy-themed episodes, but throughout other generally serious stories. It didn't start all of a sudden with Catspaw; the incorporation of humor goes back to the very beginning and it increases as the first season wears on. Part of it may be that it was Gene L. Coon's style and the more control he had over the scripts, the more he stamped them with the character humor he liked. Part of it may have been the influence of the actors, all of whom wanted more of those moments and were vocal about asking for them. And, given that most of the humor is character-based, part may just be that it was easier to write and play once the characters and relationships were more firmly established. Nimoy and Kelley especially seem to benefit from the greater comfort with the character relationships, as you mentioned. Some of Leonard Nimoy's early concerns about compromising the seriousness of the Spock character had clearly eased by the late first season, as he has no problem showing Spock's sense of humor by then. It's one of the things I miss most in the third season, where his humor is mostly unintentional again, with a few welcome exceptions (like The Empath, which we just discussed).

 

[Nelson Au]

I guess the only explanation for the Roman parallel world is the Hodgkins Law on Parallel planet development. The word was smog! And yes, the other parallel worlds had good explanations. But for an episode like Patterns of Force, if they had the budget, it might have been interesting had the Ekosians been made up to look less human like in the Voyager or Enterprise episodes with aliens in Nazi uniforms. But then I guess Kirk would have not made a convincing Nazi. I would agree that Mr. Coon was likely responsible for the added character humor once he came on board and became more familiar with the material and gained more control.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee,I could use a hint for your question. You can put it in a spoiler so as not to give the hint away to others. The only hint I would like is for you to let me know what season the final answer is from, if that's okay.

 

[FanCollector]

As requested:

Spoiler

Second season.

 

[Ockeghem]

As requested:

Spoiler

Second season.

Lee,Thanks. I've combed several episodes in my mind from that season, and yet I continue to come back to Kirk every time. Realizing of course that he can't count for this question makes it all the more challenging.

 

[Nelson Au]

I know this is a long shot;In The Conscience of the King, the dialogue between Kirk and Spock suggests that Spock knows Dr. Leighton. "A good research empirical scientist...." Perhaps by reputation only.And in The Enterprise Incident, it's sort of suggested the Romulan Commander knew Spock. But I think it was likely more that the spies probably had info on Spock and the Romulan Commander recognized him. However the intelligence didn't know he was the first officer on the Enterprise.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,I like your take on Spock and Leighton. Perhaps that one will qualify, unless of course Spock knew Leighton by reputation only. By the way, Cushman does explore the relationship of Spock and Leighton somewhat. I don't know if you've read that section yet.

 

[FanCollector]

Spock and Leighton may have met, but I don't think we really have enough information to say. It seems strongly suggested to me that the Romulan Commander is surprised at Spock's existence. Why do you think they knew one another? (For what it's worth, the remaining instance is pretty unambiguous.)

 

[Nelson Au]

Let me see, I agree that the Romulan Commander says she was surprised to see him, but was not aware of Vulcans serving on Starships. She didn't know Spock was on the Enterprise, but she does say they are aware of certain officers, nothing specific. I agree its not explicitly said they met before. I was just shooting in the dark. And agreed, not enough evidence regarding Dr. Leighton either way. Thought I'd try! I was going to try Commodore Travers, McCoy is aware of his hospitality in Arena. But again, no clear evidence McCoy met him before. How about crewman Darnell in The Man Trap? He says Nancy reminds him of a girl he met on Wrigley's Pleasure Planet. But then again, there's that problem that she's an illusion. And the same applies to Pike upon meeting Tango.

 

[Nelson Au]

Captain Pike is reunited with Vina in The Menagerie PT 2?

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,Those are some excellent guesses. I have an unfair advantage with regard to the remaining answer, as I asked for a hint. So I'm going to disqualify myself from any chance of winning the question.

Lee,Perhaps this has already been given as an answer, but if not, is it:

Spoiler

Spock's parents or T'Pring in Journey To Babel?

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks Scott! Since I didn't look at the clue Lee gave to you, I won't look at your answer above. I don't see why you should disqualify yourself?

 

[Ockeghem]

"I don't see why you should disqualify yourself?"Nelson,

You will have earned it, whereas I have been given an unfair advantage. If you look at the hint, then we're even.

 

[FanCollector]

Nelson, watch me be even more obnoxious than usual--Pike and Vina would count, except he is no longer a member of the Enterprise crew when it happens.Scott, check your spoilered guess once more and you may appreciate why I am having difficulty formulating a response to it...

 

[Nelson Au]

To quote Spock: Damn you sir! Okay, back to the drawing board.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee,LOL. Sorry about that. How about:

Spoiler

Spock's parents in Journey To Babel or T'Pring in Amok Time?

 

[FanCollector]

Scott has gotten at least part of the final answer. Not sure how you guys want to handle it in terms of the spoilers and so on. If it matters, the final scoring will not be altered either way, as Nelson has five points (plus the arguable Korby point) and Scott has either two or three points (plus the arguable Nancy Crater point).

 

[Nelson Au]

It's your game and your rules! By the way, I was thinking perhaps Spock had past correspondence with Ambassador Kollos in Is There in Truth No Beauty? I only thought it because Spock does say he was offered the job to go and work with Kollos before Miranda applied for the job. I realize early on Spock says he'd appreciate an opportunity to greet the Ambassador. So it implies he's meeting him the first time. I finally realized, because I forgot the dialogue that Miranda would only get the job if she can mind link with Kollos. And in a way, Spock helps her mind link after she mind links with insane Spock and probably had contact with Kollos after the fact.It will be interesting to see who the final past acquaintance will be!Wait a minute, it's T'Pring isn't it!