Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films)

Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by Ockeghem, Mar 9, 2008.

  1. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,568
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Okay!Zefram Cochrane of Alpha Centuri? I was curious and looked up the actual wiki on Alpha Centuri because I seem to want to think its a galaxy and it's a system. So Cochrane could have been living on one of the planets in the system. This bit of fact from Metamorphosis always hounded me. He's human I thought even before First Contact was filmed or a gleam in anyone's eye. So I always thought he went out there to live after discovering warp drive. But he wasn't a native of that system. I was thinking of Andromeda and the Kelvins. That's another galaxy! I still like Corbett's depiction over Cromwell. Of course I blame Moore and Braga for that. I think I already had that rant. :)
     
  2. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,568
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    And it would be madness to interfere with such a worthy endeavor to Arianus. I am not sure I recall if Scott already named that planet.
     
  3. FanCollector

    FanCollector Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    4,872
    Likes Received:
    702
    Real Name:
    Lee
    Arianus is definitely right.Alpha Centauri (one of our closest neighbors, I believe) is trickier. When Kirk mentions the Federation, Cochrane has no idea what he means. Common sense dictates that Alpha Centauri would be a member of the Federation, but we can't really establish it from the show (unless you can find some other evidence or interpretation I missed). What indicated to you that Cochrane was from Earth before First Contact? He does say that Gamma Canaris isn't "Earth," but I always interpreted that as being in deference to his guests, whom he has already established as human. I guess I just took "of Alpha Centauri" at face value.
     
  4. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,568
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Alpha Centuri is 1.34 parsecs or 4.37 light years away from our Sun! Regarding Cochrane, maybe revisionist history is playing tricks on me. The Cromwell Cochrane could be affecting my thinking. Now that I think about it, as a kid, I took it at face value too. McCoy certifies Cochrane is human. I suppose it is possible Cochrane moved from Earth at some point to Alpha Centuri and called it home when he retired. Or his family moved there from Earth before he was born. Holy cow, I have MeTV on and Hogan's Heroes is on. Arlene Martel is a guest star. Also surprising after looking it up that it's a 1965 episode and it's in color.
     
  5. FanCollector

    FanCollector Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    4,872
    Likes Received:
    702
    Real Name:
    Lee
    You're right about McCoy. That is a good point. I kind of like your theory about his parents moving there before he was born.Like Get Smart, only the pilot episode of Hogan's Heroes was in black and white. Everything else, even that first season, was in color.
     
  6. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,568
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Of course there is nothing in the series that clarifies where Cochrane's origins are. So Moore and Braga we're free to concoct their own history.I guess CBS and NBC was much more willing to invest in TV shows to be in color in 1965. That's right, I forgot Get Smart's first season was 1965.
     
  7. FanCollector

    FanCollector Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    4,872
    Likes Received:
    702
    Real Name:
    Lee
    That was really the transitional year. Before 1965, there were some color specials and a few regular color shows especially on NBC (e.g. Bonanza and the Virginian), but they were the exception. And then in the fall of 1966, all three networks went full color except for some news stuff and old movies. But the 1965-1966 season was a real mix of color and b/w. Most of the new series premiering in 1965 were in color because the networks saw how things were going, although you can tell which new shows they figured would be quickly canceled because they did run in b/w. (I Dream of Jeannie was in b/w all that first season, clearly showing NBC's lack of faith.) Of course, as we discussed last week, for most Americans this trend was academic because only a small percentage of households had a color TV in 1965. But that fact does give some credence to the theory that Star Trek's popularity with owners of color TVs helped keep it on NBC longer.
     
  8. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    355
    Real Name:
    Scott D. Atwell
    I can't recall where I heard or read this, but The Patty Duke Show might have had a fourth season had TPTB agreed to do it in color. Thankfully (in my humble opinion) the series gave us the three seasons it did only in b&w. Doing a fourth season in color is a decision that I am quite pleased never occurred.

    Nelson,

    Whenever I see the name of Arlene Martel, I think either of T'Pring or ... Consuelo Biros! ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,568
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Yes, poor Consuelos and the coldly logical T'Pring must be her most famous roles.RCA owned or partly owned Paramount as I recall the famous story, so many series I'm sure we're benefitting from color. And I never looked it up, but RCA must have encouraged other series success with promotion on their color TV's?"Live, and in color. You Name The Winner!"
     
  10. FanCollector

    FanCollector Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    4,872
    Likes Received:
    702
    Real Name:
    Lee
    They owned NBC, so they really had the show's fate in their hands!
     
  11. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,568
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Oh yeah, NBC. Not Paramount.This was interesting and I Did a quick web search. I didn't know what network original ran Bonanza. I found a website that listed all the milestones of the NBC RCA era. Bonanza was the first filmed western in color in 1959. And 1966 marks the first year where NBC is the first network to run all shows in color. Furthering your point Lee. http://www.novia.net/~ereitan/rca-nbc_firsts.htmlI cannot ever imagine a season of Star Trek in black and white. Of course we've all seen The Cage in black and white and the series on black and white TV sets. But it's fortunate that the series was never filmed in black and white. It works for shows like The Munsters. And even The Outer Limits and The Twilight Zone. I bet the later two series might have benefited from color. But the noir lighting and filming does add to the feeling of dread for The Outer Limits.
     
  12. FanCollector

    FanCollector Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    4,872
    Likes Received:
    702
    Real Name:
    Lee
    I think my choice for the show most needing color is Batman, as the whole idea depends on recreating the look of a comic book. But Star Trek is pretty high on the list. I think black and white did help set the tone for a lot of shows, like Twilight Zone and Outer Limits. One example of the mood being hurt to some extent, I think, was The Fugitive. When it was renewed for the fall of 1966 it had to go to color and the tone did suffer a little.That timeline has a lot of interesting entries. I didn't know about that one Dragnet episode, for example.
     
  13. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,568
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    That's a great candidate for color Lee. Batman was pretty colorful. In thinking about that qualification, Lost In Space and the other Irwin Allen series were quite colorful as well by design due to the fantasy nature of those shows. In fact many series of those years, especially in 1967-69 were quite colorful!What caught my eye on that RCA NBC list was the mention of Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color being quite a color TV seller. That makes sense.I've never seen The Fugitive. I've seen bits of episodes, but never the entire series. I would never have thought the addition of color would alter its mood that much. I suppose at the time, bright colors were a necessity or mandate by the network. I'll go back to that list and see what you meant by the Dragnet example.
     
  14. FanCollector

    FanCollector Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    4,872
    Likes Received:
    702
    Real Name:
    Lee
    Yes, I guess Marketing 101 would be to call the thing "Wonderful World of Color"! The Irwin Allen shows started out in b/w and then switched in the fall of 1966. I think some fans prefer the earlier shows but more because of the scripts than the lack of color. Upon reflection, that's probably part of the issue I find with the last year of The Fugitive. Still a wonderful show, and probably a little more atmospheric in black and white, but the stories in the fourth year weren't quite as fresh. (Imagine a great 60s drama that struggled with writing issues in its final season! Where would we find another one of those...?)The Dragnet listing was for a single episode broadcast in color in the mid-50s.
     
  15. FanCollector

    FanCollector Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    4,872
    Likes Received:
    702
    Real Name:
    Lee
    By the way, a happy Fourth of July to everyone here! Enjoy your day!
     
  16. Nelson Au

    Nelson Au Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 1999
    Messages:
    12,568
    Likes Received:
    1,204
    Yes, Happy Fourth! Makes me think of the scene in The Great Escape.I'm heading out to a BBQ now.What I didn't expect regarding Dragnet was to find such a long history. I knew it had a run in the 50's. And I was more familiar with the 1960's edition, but I didn't either remember or realize it had such a run on radio. Radio? (I was quoting Kirk. In Star Trek The Motion Picture.)That lead to spreading out to the creation of Adam-12, a series I certainly remember seeing. Great stuff.
     
  17. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    355
    Real Name:
    Scott D. Atwell
    Happy Fourth Of July to all. :)

    Nelson,I love Adam-12. I own the first five seasons on DVD thus far.

    I watched Conscience Of the King last night, and was again lost in the wonderful music heard during that episode. That got me to listening to more of the Star Trek: The Original Series Soundtrack Collection today. There is so much material there to be enjoyed. I'm also working my way through the ASV (1901) bible as I embark on a prolonged fast. I've never read that version in its entirety before. Now where is that desert island I frequently hear so much about? ;)
     
  18. FanCollector

    FanCollector Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    4,872
    Likes Received:
    702
    Real Name:
    Lee
    Between the ST Soundtrack Collection and the entire ASV Bible, you seem to have a taste for big projects. Enjoy them, even if the desert island isn't quite ready for occupancy yet.I watched By Any Other Name today and it's still remarkable to me how they effect that tonal shift and make it really work in an organic way. The episode pivots almost completely in the lunch scene and yet it all feels like a consistent whole to me every time.
     
    Ockeghem likes this.
  19. Ockeghem

    Ockeghem Ockeghem

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2007
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    355
    Real Name:
    Scott D. Atwell
    "Between the ST Soundtrack Collection and the entire ASV Bible, you seem to have a taste for big projects."Agreed. And fasting as well. ;)

    Lee,I'm intrigued by the 'tonal shift' you mention. Can you elaborate a bit on that?Years ago, on another Board, I recall having a discussion with some fans of TOS who asserted (correctly, I believe) that the make-up changes we see in Rojan et al. as they become more accustomed to their human form were done gradually and effectively. I'll have to give more attention to that (and to the lunch scene you speak of above) when I watch that episode either tonight or tomorrow.
     
  20. FanCollector

    FanCollector Producer

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Messages:
    4,872
    Likes Received:
    702
    Real Name:
    Lee
    Dragnet was positively an institution. Not necessarily a personal favorite, but certainly one of the most influential shows of all time.Scott, that's an intriguing point about the make-up. I have only ever noticed the changes in Rojan's. The episode was also, as we once covered in a trivia question, the only one filmed by Keith Smith, and his lighting on the Enterprise sets may have been slightly different too.The tonal shift is from the extremely serious nature of the first part of the episode to the much lighter, almost winking, sketches of the latter part. The first half is characterized by discussions of the limitations of the physical form, the threat of the end of life as we know it, the eerie mind touch scene, the death of Yeoman Thompson, the possible self-destruction of the Enterprise, and the reduction of the entire crew while Kirk watches helplessly. After the somber lunch where no one eats and the flare-up between Kirk and McCoy, the episode becomes a lot of fun. We have the knowingly witty seduction scenes between Kirk and Kelinda, the chess game with its Abbott and Costello rhythm, Hanar's drug-induced freak outs, "I'm stimulating him," and most of all, Scotty and Tomar's tour of Federation distilleries. Such a clear distinction, and yet I think the two halves blend very nicely because they both explore the same theme of humanity being tied to physical sensation and our shared experiences. If we look at all the versions of the theme being played out, that's probably Star Trek's most common message and By Any Other Name approaches it from two entirely different sides.Jerome Bixby has his only shared credit on this episode because he said he couldn't really see the latter part of the show the same way the producers wanted it. He had a very heavy tone throughout, focusing on the Kelvans' feelings about the vastness of space and after a couple of rewrite attempts, Dorothy Fontana took over and made the second half what we see on screen. Bixby was gracious afterwards and always said he liked what she did and that he would never have been able to do it in that way.
     

Share This Page