Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (7 Viewers)

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,I thought Lee's answer was correct. How about The Way To Eden?

 

[Nelson Au]

"You be correct", Scott! I was surprised when I looked into this. Some episodes were obvious he had a lot to say. Others seemed like he had a lot of lines.1. The Trouble with Tribbles: 272. The Deadly Years: 9. Here I thought he had more lines because of his complaining about giving more blood, etc.3. Triskelion: 144. Spectre of the Gun: 365. The Way to Eden: 416. Day of the Dove: 12

 

[Nelson Au]

It's very possible Chekov had more actual lines in "Gun". If I have a minute, I'll try to count them.

 

[FanCollector]

I just took a quick look. Nice of you to suggest it was worth doing, but Scott definitely got the right answer, no matter how one counts. Chekov had more lines in Eden, and his speeches in that episode were longer on average also. Rather a devil's bargain for Walter Koenig who always wanted more to do as Chekov and then got his biggest part in what he has said was his least favorite episode.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks for looking Lee. I had considered Who Mourns for Adonias and Catspaw, his earliest appearances, but my impression was those were smaller parts. Tribbles allowed him some fun times. Same with Triskelion. Isn't it the way in life you don't always get what you want. Though I don't recall which episode is his favorite. I would think he has several to pick from.

 

[FanCollector]

My recollection is that he chooses Spectre of the Gun when asked. (Which probably influenced my choice.) He liked the relationship with Sylvia and the way it was portrayed in the episode, plus the fact that he got to be in a gunfight and have everyone else talk about him a lot.

 

[Nelson Au]

That makes sense. He gets to play cowboy, kiss the girl and gets killed!

 

[FanCollector]

And still got to be back the following week! An actor's dream!

 

[Nelson Au]

Sure enough Lee!I was listening to The Corbomite Maneuver today and while I've seen it more then a couple of a dozen times, I paid attention to Balok's voice more then ever. Maybe because I've been listening to Vic Perrin's voice a lot in other episodes. It made me wonder how they got his voice to sound so subtly different. It wasn't so clear before to me that he sounds diminutive! So they must have electronically or with whatever technique available then, altered his voice. Or Vic Perrin did it himself. It's just never occurred to me consciously to sound so whimsical and child-like. Scott, are you whipping up another one of your recipes for the numerically challenged numbers questions? It's your turn.

 

[FanCollector]

Vic Perrin was a real voice pro. I don't know what they did to his voice. I'm sure he changed it himself, but it does sound artificially altered to me also. More so, ironically, than Ted Cassidy's in the same episode.

 

[Nelson Au]

Hmm, I just looked up the credits to Vic Perrin and Corbomite Maneuver. Walker Edmiston is credited as Balok's voice! No wonder it sounds a little different from Perrin's voice. But I could have sworn it was Perrin. I'll have to look into this more. Of course there's no confusing Ted Cassidy's voice. I noticed my last post has a typo. I wroted challenged instead of challenging! It was late and I was tired.

 

[Ockeghem]

Nelson,I don't have a question ready at the moment, so if anyone else would 'like to take a crack at it,' please feel free to do so. Otherwise, I'll have one later.

 

[FanCollector]

Oh, it's definitely Edmiston! I just watched the scene and that explains the altered voice. I had always seen it credited to Vic Perrin also and gullibly believed. But now that you wrote that it was Walker Edmiston, it makes much more sense. His voice is naturally much higher than Perrin's and that matches what we hear in the scene.

 

[Nelson Au]

This was a real surprise Lee! He is credited as voice artist in several more episodes. Lawgiver, Eminian guard, etc. I'll be listening more closely!

 

[Ockeghem]

This might interest some here. I don't recall if it's been posted previously. Enjoy!

****************

STAR TREK Memo From Gene Roddenberry: Writing TOS Characters

http://www.roddenberry.com/community-transmitter

 

[Chuck Anstey]

I just read that memo and the section on Chekov is quite an eye opener. I never once got the impression in TOS that Chekov was anything but an ordinary junior officer who happened to get lucky enough to be assigned the Enterprise. In Star Trek 2009 I thought it was odd to make Chekov very young and a genius but apparently Roddenberry wanted it that way back in TOS.

 

[Ockeghem]

I think that's right, and if I'm not mistaken, Roddenberry eventually got his wish regarding the genius aspect being part of a character when Wesley Crusher was created. At least this is what I have heard on an interview or two. Roddenberry even named Wesley after himself in a way (his middle name is Wesley).

 

[FanCollector]

Loads of fascinating tidbits in that memo. (Thank you so much for sharing it.) Given the date, the section on Spock seems to be a very clear response to the tension described just before that time by John Meredyth Lucas, Joseph Pevney, and others. The delicate balance of highlighting Spock and yet not having it be at Kirk's expense was a big concern at that time, and it is instructive to see Roddenberry's conscious efforts in that direction.The Kirk section makes me wonder about people writing in to the show. Was there the outcry Roddenberry describes about the more relaxed Kirk? By the end of the second season, I would agree that Roddenberry is correct in saying that Kirk is less stern and isolated than in the early, Roddenberry-produced shows. At the same time, it is still only Spock and McCoy with whom Kirk ever shares any personal doubts. That is to say, he may have been a little nicer to Mr. Sulu by that time, but he still wasn't knocking back a beer with him and telling him his troubles. What do you guys think? Did Kirk get too soft?The McCoy analysis seemed hard to support. The "battles" with Spock had surely not gotten less frequent or less intense. Late second-season shows included The Gamesters of Triskelion, The Immunity Syndrome, and The Ultimate Computer. Their relationship had grown more complex by far, but to sacrifice some of that depth to go back to the casual smack-talking of, say, The Man Trap would have been a huge step back. Again, I wonder if people were really writing in suggesting that McCoy and Spock were getting too friendly.The Chekov portion, as Chuck already outlined, is of great interest. Again, looking at the date, the memo was written before the time slot was changed and Roddenberry moved off the lot. Had he maintained a hands-on presence in the third year, this memo represents what it might have looked like. Chekov really never became the genius suggested here. (Quite the opposite, one might argue.) Perhaps Fred Freiberger didn't see him that way. Or perhaps given the Kirk/Spock issues that had arisen with the cast by then, it was a tough sell to have another character "almost Spock's equal." I do wonder if George Takei and Nichelle Nichols saw this memo. They surely would have been rather upset by the relative degree of attention given to Chekov.Of all the sections, the one on Scott seems to have had the most impact, at least in the short term. For several episodes in the first half of the third season, Scotty is hanging around the engine room, wanting to be left alone, and talking to himself. Eventually, he returned to more of the second season command figure he had become, but I would say there was a definite impact of this memo first.

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks Scott for the link. I have got to get myself to see that site more! Looks like a lot of cool stuff there.That memo was certainly very interesting! I agree with you guys that it was very clear Roddenberry was fully involved at that time before the third season started and had strong ideas for the characters and surprises. I agree that Kirk didn't seem to be getting soft In his command. I wasn't aware either that the Spock/McCoy thing wasn't as well shown as we recently discussed and Lee points out above. The Chekov thing is the biggest surprise. And as pointed out, the genius aspect was shown in the 2009 film. That would have been a great year for him had things gone that way. I agree, Takei and Nichols surely might not have liked that. Hopefully had Gene been around, everyone would have been given attention.I really think Shatner knew how to play Kirk and he really had the swagger for it. He had his bastard moments. I always cringed when he yelled at Uhura for not widening her search for the transmitter in Journey to Babel. So perhaps Shatner realized that and protected his character well in the later second season and third.Thanks again Scott, that was an interesting read and it makes me wonder if Takei, Keonig or Nichols has seen that recently or even care to.

 

[Ockeghem]

Lee and Nelson,You're both quite welcome. I wish I could purchase some of the stuff that that site has for sale, too.