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Scorsese and DiCaprio to Take on Roosevelt (1 Viewer)

Rob Foss

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Sep 16, 2005
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85

The trouble with that argument, which rests on the hypothesis that Scorsese's earlier work is of such power and profundity that nobody else could equal it, not even Scorsese himself, is that it's nothing more than fanboy hyperbole.

I'm going to say something which won't be popular with the diehard Scorsese fans here but I feel it needs to be said.

I think that Scorsese may be great with a camera but he has yet to make a great movie. The overwhelming majority of his films suffer from very poor screenplays and very inconsistent direction. Agreed that most of his movies have individual shots of great power but Scorsese has always been unable to sustain that level throughout the whole film. Of his movies only After Hours and Goodfellas even approach greatness, IMO. Last Temptation, although not a great film, was at least a heartfelt one. But the rest of Scorsese's oeuvre simply doesn't hold up. There may be great individual moments in his movies but the movies themselves are not great.

Anything else? Well aside from the fact that the screenplays are frequently botched his films are usually thematically incoherent. For example it's not at all clear what the point of, say, Raging Bull is. The invariably alienating protagonists at the core of his films represent another obstacle to the claims of greatness made by his fans. It's hard to get worked up by any filmmaker who can't create the kind of interesting and sympathetic characters that viewers recall with fondness. And the director's infatuation with the sordidness of his characters is so rarely balanced by any other dramatic shading (see Casino) that they too often become boring and tedious.

Scorsese's other limitation is that thematically he hasn't shown much progression. Yes, he's tried different types of movies which on the surface sounds like a plus. Except that when you watch them the results are almost always disappointing, mediocre - in short - unremarkable. I mean, New York, New York is not going to go down in history as one of the great screen musicals, anymore than Cape Fear will go down as one of the great remakes, or Age of Innocence as a period romance whose themes transcended its genre. It's ironic that whilst Scorsese is well known as a fan of old Hollywood his movies consistently fail to come anywhere near the greatness of the directors he so admires.

In recent years he's moved into the big budget realm attempting to merge his urban street sensibility with, variously, an historical epic, a Hollywood biopic and another gangster movie, this one a remake. None of them seem likely to be remembered as definitive examples of their genre and after all isn't that the standard by which we should be judging a 'genius' by?
 

Rob Foss

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Messages
85

Well not really. I've already stated I think After Hours and Goodfellas, are, if not great, then certainly near great movies. But to answer your question, some movies that I consider great? Well ...

Sunrise (FW Murnau)

The Lady Vanishes (Hitchcock)

Doctor Jekyll and Mr Hyde (Mammoulian)

The Red Shoes (Powell & Pressburger)

Letters from Iwo Jima (Eastwood)

The Bride of Frankenstein (James Whale)

Star Wars (1977 original)

A Matter of Life and Death (Powell & Pressburger)

Singin' In the Rain (Donen)

Million Dollar Baby (Eastwood)

Citizen Kane (Welles)

Sunset Boulevard (Wilder)

All of those - apart from their other virtues of acting, cinematography, etc - are distinguished by top notch screenplays, interesting, engaging and memorable characters, coherently expressed theme(s), and perfect direction from the first shot to the last. Thus they stand head and shoulders above most anything by Martin Scorsese and IMO can be watched with renewed pleasure time and again.
 

Seth Paxton

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Nov 5, 1998
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7,585
Not a jerk at all, first off if you aren't from the culture then you tend to focus on visual features that are indicative of race/ethnicity/culture than the individual. When you see those cues all the time you look past them for the more subtle aspects, just like ambient noise.

And on top of that a big part of that plot is that these 2 guys are very similar people, nearly twins of each other that go to different sides. That's a major theme, so naturally they are very alike.
 

Jan H

Senior HTF Member
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Nov 6, 2001
Messages
2,007
I can see nitpicking about some of Scorsese's 'masterpieces,' but to say he's never made a great film is utterly ridiculous. For me, it's Goodfellas, which is at least the equal of any film on the above list. Raging Bull is pretty damn near perfect, too, but I've gotten pretty tired of ole' Jake in my dotage. He's pretty damn loathsome to watch as the years roll on. Good list, btw. With the exception of Million Dollar Baby, which pretty much undercuts your whole 'Scorsese has never made a great film' argument.
 

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