Samsung...120hz LED..or...240hz LCD

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Jimmy Reece, Feb 16, 2010.

  1. Jimmy Reece

    Jimmy Reece Auditioning

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    I have a dinosaur...61" Samsung DLP which is 7 years old; but I still love it!
    I am considering a 2nd HDTV but have limited space in a cabinet where I housed my 1st HDTV (38" Tube RCA).
    I am looking at two 46" Sammy's...one is an LCD with a 240hz refresh rate and 150k contrast ratio. The other is an LED with a 120hz rate and a 5mil contrast.
    Which makes more sense if they are comparably priiced? Do I get enough bang out of the high contrast LED to give up half on the refresh rate of the LCD I guess is my basic question.
    Your input, as always, is greatly appreciated!
    Jimmy
     
  2. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    I'm guessing the LCD is a LN46B750 and the LED is a UN46B6000 or 7000?

    LCD and LED are both LCD, the "LED" set uses an array of light emitting diodes for a backlight instead of the Cold Cathode Flourescent used by conventional lcds. In the case of all but the UNxxB8500 series sets the Samsung LED's are not actually backlit. Instead the LEDs are arranged around the edges of the screen behind the bezel with light diffusers to channel the light inward and out thru the lcd panel. This is done solely to achieve an extra thin cabinet and actually degrades pq because of excessive "flashlighting" (looks like flashlights are shining in from the edges toward the center of the screen during dark scenes) and "clouding" (lighter patches or "clouds" seen on black screen).

    The extremely high advertised contrast ratio on the LED sets is at some sacrifice too.

    All LCD sets have problems producing true blacks because it's impossible for the LCD pixels to totally block out light from the backlight. For this reason they all have a feature that automatically dims the backlight during dark scenes in order to make it easier for the LCD panel to block the light. LEDs can be dimmed more than CCFLs so there isn't as much light to block and hence they can advertise a higher contrast ratio.

    The problem is that if there's a bright section of the picture in a primarily dark scene that bright part will dim very much more noticeably on the LED sets. Some very expensive LED models (the UNxx8500 Samsungs are among these) are not lit from the edges but actually are lit from behind and have separate lighting "zones"---something like 120 of them that can dim separately from each other to keep the bright parts of dark scenes from dimming excessively.
    These sets are designated as having "local dimming".

    So basically you have a choice between a 240 hz set with less flashlighting and clouding and an excellent "real" contrast ratio vs a 120hz set with significant flashlighting and clouding and dimming of bright parts of dark scenes but a really sexy thin cabinet.

    Did I also mention that the edge lit LED Samsungs have plenty of HDMI inputs but due to the thin profile only one component input and none of the other types while the ccfl set you're looking at has a full complement of input options?

    Then there's the fact that a very good 50" plasma (Samsung PN550 or 650 or Panasonic S1 or G10) can be had for much less than either of these lcds and will have better blacks and much better fast motion handling than either of them along with more accurate color reproduction.
     
  3. Jason Charlton

    Jason Charlton Ambassador

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    Fascinating stuff, Steve. Thanks for the info!
     
  4. blambert007

    blambert007 Auditioning

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    Steve S
    so, are you saying that the Samsung UNxx8500 isn't worth the $$$?
     
  5. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
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    hi guys

    Steve is right on the money....I wish more sales pros had this expertise.

    I can not see any visual difference between 120 and 240 Hz panels.
     
  6. gene c

    gene c Producer

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    Neither could Widescreen Review in their NOV, 2009 issue. Marketing is at it again.
     
  7. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    Don't forget that the LED ones also use less energy than the CCF ones. (On the same settings)

    Plasma sets have considerably better viewing angles versus the LCD ones. At optimal viewing distances, most LCDs are good for two people at most seeing the best image. More than that and the colors and blacks start to shift noticeably.

    regards
     
  8. Jimmy Reece

    Jimmy Reece Auditioning

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    My fear with Plasma was extended of the digital music channels offered, which has a stable image for minutes at the time, the screen would suffer "burn-in"...is that no longer the case, and am I more safe from that illness with either LCD or LED?
    Thanx for all the terrific comments as always!
     
  9. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    A friend's new VIZIO 40" LCD is easily watched from ~80-deg off axis (a glancing angle) with no apparent color shift. At least none that you care about if you're watching casually from that far off center :)

    I also note that a recent demo of a 240Hz LCD panel looked noticably different from my Plasma. The LCD had a funny, overly-fluid cartoony look compared to what I'm used to watching 24p mode on my Plasma.

    My Plasma isn't perfect. You get used to the weaknesses after you've spent the money :)
     
  10. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    A lot of Vizios use an "IPS" (think I got that right) panel that is very good at looking the same off-angle and straight on but is thought by some to be a little lacking in contrast ratio.

    What you're seeing on the 240hz set is a product of the frame interpolation process, it's commonly known as the Soap Opera Effect.
     
  11. Brian Serene

    Brian Serene Stunt Coordinator

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    There is no need to spend about, $2,000 on a Samsung UN46B8500 to reap the benefits of LED back-lighting and local dimming.


    I suggest that you find the Vizio 551/552. In the 55 inch size you can find one for under $2,000. They are 240Hz and are back-lit LED with local dimming.

    Picture quality is outstanding.
     
  12. SQMonte

    SQMonte Stunt Coordinator

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    I couldn't agree more!
     
  13. bob259

    bob259 Auditioning

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    My fear with Plasma's is like what I got with my Toshiba after only about 3 years old. A dead spot 8" from the right side, 4" across and half way down the screen of nothing.... It's getting annoying, but I don't have any idea what to get, was thinking of the Samsung LED... now I wonder about that choice too.
     

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