SACD: Is it time for the funeral? (1 Viewer)

[Brian-W]

Well, not quite - see the problem Paul is that when I put something like Pink Floyd DSoTM, or my HK import of Air Supply, or hell, even the 2 channel Cyndi Lauper disc, it drives me nuts: this format kicks ass! I need *more* software!!!

I'm just venting because SACD was/is ->the

 

[Paul.S]

Chris I wanna make sure I understand, given that it sounds like you're comparing supposedly three different SACD playback methods: 1) "pure DSD"; 2) "conversion to PCM for use over HDMI"; and 3) "analog connections."

Regarding option 1, what does the Oppo do in "pure DSD" mode? It "decodes" the DSD and outputs it via analog? It's not my understanding that any player outputs a digital, "pure DSD" signal to then be decoded by some outboard device.

Options 2 and 3 I think involve a conversion to PCM first before outputting via those different respective outputs, yes? There was a LOT of Forum debate about this around the time of the release of Pio's 563A, the first budget "universal" player of decent quality, because it was posited/theorized that the player converted to PCM before outputting.

Frankly, I don't think I cared enough to drill down to a clear answer--to the extent one existed--because I'd think the differences are infinitesimal. Having said that, if the DACs in the pre/pro are better than those in the player, then HDMI is--on paper--the way to go.

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

Don't forget that bass management is generally very poor or non-existant in SACD players.....

The older SACD players required analog connections which meant that the only reasonable way to get adequate bass management was to pony up the $300 for the Outlaw ICBM.

 

[Brian-W]

Actually it wasn't even done for legacy or price justification - it was done merely to show off the horsepower under the PS3s hood.

And, as a former Sony employee (SCEA no less), I've been at the front line of the whole 'synergy' thing, and back when Sony acquired Columbia/Tri-Star (and Columbia music to a limited degree), it was a joke then. Sony even went so far to set up a licensing division called "Sony Signatures" which sole job was to handle licensing 'synergy' - they tried to bilk other Sony groups for as much as possible. But there were gray areas as well, and side negotiations with teh movie studio for example.

Anyway, that was in the past, and yes, each Sony group operates independently rather than trying to co-exist or figure out how to maximize hardware and software sales. They have it all, and still 14 years later can't quite make it work. At least not fluidly.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Actually, there are four possible ways for players to handle SACD with receivers having analog and HDMI inputs I am aware of.

1. DSD>PCM>analog processed by player.

2. DSD>PCM>HDMI (requires HDMI 1.1) to be processed by separate decoder.

3. DSD>analog processed by player.

4. DSD>HDMI (requires HDMI 1.2a) to be processed by separate decoder.

My Oppo DV-980H does 1, 2, and 4. I have only heard 1 and 3 which has been discussed often. I don't doubt the differences are infintesimal to the human ear. I also don't know if the separate DSD decoder once again can take the pure DSD signal from 4 and be designed to convert to PCM. Of course there are also players with proprietary digital connections or IEEE 1394 that may or may not convert to PCM and I don't know if that would present audibly different results. I have read claims differences are apparent among the various methods.

Chris

 

[FeisalK]

if it does 4, why would it not do 3 instead of 1?

or does it have to do 1 because of in-player BM?

 

[Aaron Silverman]

Paul, I actually splurged for a PS3 before I even got the new TV! (For someone whose gaming time is measured in minutes rather than hours, those free demo downloads are perfect! On the other hand, my birthday's coming up and Stranglehold is really calling to me.)

Goofy hobby, indeed.

 

[Chris Gerhard]

Yes, It is my understanding coversion to PCM is required because of bass management. I am not aware of any players that can do bass management for analog output without that conversion.

Chris

 

[Danny Tse]

4,800th title added at sa-cd.net

With 3 months to go until the end of the year, it's possible SACD will reach 5,000 titles by that time.

 

[Brian-W]

Danny, how come SA-CD.net doesn't list the SACDs in your signature?

 

[Danny Tse]

Sony has referred all online SACD title reference to SA-CD.net, and as far as I know, it is run by one person (try going to Sony Europe's formerly "superaudio-cd.com"). Given that fact, I was told by sa-cd.net's owner that as of September 1, 2005, he will no longer be adding SACD titles from Hong Kong/China/Taiwan or any other parts of Asia, aside those from Japan. The reasons given include were of commercial nature and that he didn't have enough time to add those titles.

I will be adding 5 more titles to my signature link. These are just the ones I owned....that are many more SACD titles that are not documented at sa-cd.net.

 

[Brian-W]

that's a shame - the owner should open up SA-CD.net to users and let users add details.

 

[Danny Tse]

He does....as long as the title is listed on the site. For example, UK jazz vocalist Stacey Kent has a SACD called "Stacey Kent Collection" and it was released for about a year before it appeared on sa-cd.net. The title was licenced by a music label in Singapaore for release on SACD. Similarly, Petula Clark has a SACD that was licensed for release by Hong Kong label, Top Music....but it has yet to make it to sa-cd.net.

 

[Paul.S]

Wonderful to see: I think this is the first standalone high def player to support SACD.

http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/bdplx90/bdplx90.htm

 

[Brian-W]

Supposedly that's a 'wish list' player, and a photoshop mock up. I believe it, as Pioneer has yet to announce an SACD capable BD player anywhere in the world.

 

[Paul.S]

According to whom please?

 

[Brian-W]

It's been debated ad-naseum at AVS. There's also been zero announcement from any region (North America, Japan, Asia, Europe, U.K.) for this player or any player with even the remote # of specs (namely SACD) from Pioneer.

Additionally, every website links back to your link, which is a retailer. It's been the only retailer to advertise it as well (aside from an Hong Kong retailer who copied the AV link). Strange don't you think? Finally, it's been on that retailers site since April of this year.

I'd like to think that a player like that is coming, but Pioneer just announced a new player due out now, and it doesn't have those specs. CEATAC just happened as well and nothing out of the show for a high end unit with all those specs - and Japan is generally always first for the newest high end products from Pioneer.

 

[Brian-W]

http://www.akihabaranews.com/en/news...m+Pioneer.html

There is this player that Pioneer just announced yesterday (but it's an SACD player only, and for Japan).

 

[Danny Tse]

The Pioneer CD/SACD player (a stereo 2 channel only player at that) is available in the US already.

 

[Paul.S]

Brian:

Ironic that you link to a Pio player announcement from a site editor who attributes SACD's improved sq to "a bunch of urban myths" and admits to "never ever [getting his] hands on an SACD."

I shared your comments with a friend of mine who tracks these things more closely than I do (I make a player purchase every few years and then only generally keep up with developments until I'm actively in the market to buy again). He had the following to say: