Rush: "Snakes and Arrows" discussion (1 Viewer)

[questrider]

I only have the standard definition version, but once again the 5.1 is "shite". How in the world can Rush screw up the 5.1 mix so badly once again for the third live DVD in a row? I have lots of concert DVDs with 5.1 mixes that are full, rich, immersive and vibrant but this thing is tinny and lacks much bass whatsoever. My 5.1 setup is calibrated perfectly with an SPL meter at 80dB and I had to shove the subwoofer up +7.5 to get any bottom end and even then the vocals are spread around the entire soundstage with lots of reverb. Overall, it's a thin mix with little depth that sounds flat and leaves much to be desired. The 2.0 PCM isn't much better either, but will do. I think the CD released back in the spring sounds better than what ended up on the DVD, and even that is stretching things a bit. How can Led Zeppelin (with 30 year-old recordings), U2 (all of their DVDs sound great in 5.1!), Steely Dan (it's expected they will sound great), Duran Duran, and Phish (to name a few in my collection) all put out DVDs that just sound so full and immersive but Rush can't? Something ain't right up north.

 

[Jack Gilvey]

It's really no different on the BD w/ DTS-HD MA. As I noted in the BD thread, very hall-heavy, with little instrument/vocal presence.
Great disc, though. It's Rush!

 

[questrider]

Thanks, since I'm not BD-ready yet, I don't visit that thread. I was thinking maybe it sounded better on the Blu-Ray disc, but then rational thought kicked in and I realized why should it? It's the same surround mix. Then I simply wondered why they didn't put DTS on the SD version since each set of a little over an hour is on it's own DVD, leaving plenty of room for a DTS track. But, it just sounds like the source mix is so bad that no encoding is going to fix it. Ah, well. I've been listening to the PCM 2.0 stereo mix in DTS:Neo6 with my subwoofer cranked up +8.0 and it's okay, just not what I was hoping for.

That said, the picture, editing and performances are astounding. I can only imagine how beautiful it looks on Blu-Ray to a 1080p display. Someday!

 

[Jeff Brooks]

It is absolutely amazing to me that Rush cannot put out a decent audio mix on a concert presentation. Heck, I finished listening to The Who Live at Kilburn BD right before the Snakes and Arrows BD, and it is 31 years old and had more oomph. Why what appears to be the enhancement of the crowd noise instead of the tunes?! Strangely, the standard DTS mix on the bootleg Atlanta portion sounded better than the DTS Master on the main feature. The video was really good, though.

 

[questrider]

Exactly. Even when I was assessing the audio mixes, I found the songs from Atlanta sounding better but still not exemplary.

 

[Nathan Eddy]

After watching this BD about three times, I have to agree with some here. I initially thought the sound quality was fantastic, but repeated views have revealed some flaws. I'm still working the kinks out of my set-up, however. I just purchased a Sony 550 player, and this was the first disc I viewed. I also have to state that I'm a very fanatical Rush fan. So I'm a little biased.

Initially, I was stunned by the quality of sound coming from my surrounds (Paradigm Atoms). I've never heard them sound so expansive and immersive. The lossless quality is evident in the shimmering cymbals. Even the crowd noise sounded better than I've ever heard. The vocals sounded clear and huge. After the weak vocals of Rush in Rio, that was a surprising difference. However, as others have noted, the "boomy" quality of the vocal mix bothered me. I thought the vocal mix on R30 was better.

Bass sounded a little weak at first. I had my surrounds and my center set to "small" in the 550 setup menu. After changing that to "large," I've got tons more bass. Ged's "crunchy" bass sound is really growing on me. I love that fuzz!

I love that I can see what they are playing, note for note (viewed on a Pany 50" 768p). The video editing was superb. I've noted elsewhere that I can see knuckle hair on Alex's hands during the solos! I can see individual gray hairs on Geddy's head! I can tell which strings are vibrating, and which are not. The colors on the cymbals are amazing. I even love the "shakey-cam" shots of Neil when he's doing a snare drum roll. And there are even shots of him cracking a smile between the ubiquitous layers of his kit.

Overall, I wish there were more music-sensitive edits, such as my favorite drum parts, guitar licks, etc. being highlighted in the video edit. But everyone is different, and everyone emphasizes different parts in their mind while listening. I also wish the vocal mix was a bit tighter and confined to the center channel, instead of booming over the entire sound stage. I wish that the center channel was not so busy. There are guitars, bass, drums ,and vocals all competing for that center space. I do like the surround quality of the drums, but I wish there was more left/right separation in the mains. The guitar is mixed well into the 5.1 channels, but it sounded a tad weak at times. What I was hearing wasn't matching the intensity of what Alex was strumming.


The PCM stereo mix sounded great. It had a lot more bass. It was crystal clear, and I couldn't detect any problems. I keep planning on doing an A/B comparison with the CD. I'll let you know when I do.

 

[Paul.S]

"Funny" how they were both wrong.

Perhaps too ebullient for its own good but, another review--with screenshots:

Blu-ray.com - Rush - Snakes and Arrows Live (Blu-ray) - Blu-ray Review