"Rumor has it..." HD-DVD cropped to fit 16x9 HDTV & DVD has OAR 1.85:1???

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Paul Hillenbrand, May 9, 2006.

  1. Paul Hillenbrand

    Paul Hillenbrand Screenwriter

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    Please, Explain this one!

    The HD DVD / DVD COMBO disc "Rumor has it.." came out today 5/9/06 and the back of the case states that side A, that has the High Definition Main Feature, is 16x9 1.78:1.

    Side B that has the DVD Main Feature, is 480P Standard Definition 16x9 1.85:1 (The OAR).

    [​IMG]


    The Single DVD: "Rumor has it..." states on the back of the case: "Presented in a "MATTED" widescreen format preserving the aspect ratio of it's original theatrical exhibition."

    Paul
     
  2. Steve Tannehill

    Steve Tannehill Ambassador

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    Personally, I'm not losing sleep over this until someone can measure the two transfers on a display with zero overscan. Life is too short.

    - Steve
     
  3. Kyle McKnight

    Kyle McKnight Cinematographer

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    How much sleep would you actually lose if it proved to be true? I'm guessing...none?

    Sucks OAR is being compromised, especially if, as everyone was saying, these new HD formats are aimed directly at movie enthusiasts.
     
  4. Steve Tannehill

    Steve Tannehill Ambassador

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    I take OAR seriously. Until someone PROVES it has been compromised, this is all bullshit.

    - Steve
     
  5. Marko Berg

    Marko Berg Supporting Actor

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    Was it really necessary to start a new thread instead of just continuing the discussion in the GoodFellas thread? Should we create a new thread in the SD software area for each such release? There would be hundreds, if not thousands of them.
     
  6. Keith E

    Keith E Stunt Coordinator

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    Actually aren't the movies that we have on standard DVD cropped at 1.78:1 if the OAR is 1.85:1?

    I'm not sure what all the complaining is about if we have no proof that there is a difference at this time.

    Everyone that has been following DVD releases for years knows that DVD packaging is not always a reliable source for information.
     
  7. Steve Tannehill

    Steve Tannehill Ambassador

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    Keith, no, I know that at least Universal shows 1.85x1 movies with very small black bands.

    For what it's worth, when I get Rumor Has It... hopefully today, I'll put it on the DVD-ROM drive and check it out on the computer display--which has zero overscan. I do not, however, have that option for the HD-DVD side of the disc.

    - Steve
     
  8. Paul Hillenbrand

    Paul Hillenbrand Screenwriter

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    Exactly! [​IMG]

    Paul
     
  9. Paul Hillenbrand

    Paul Hillenbrand Screenwriter

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    When I play the DVD side, my 110" screen has a black bar on the bottom, about 1" width. When I play the HD-DVD side, it fills the 16x9 screen.

    Paul
     
  10. TedD

    TedD Supporting Actor

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    OK, the $2,000.00 question: Does the HD-DVD side fill the screen vertically with additional information, or does the DVD side show slightly more information on the sides of the picture?

    That will tell us whether they opened the mattes (the correct choice) or the zoomed in on the image (the incorrect choice).

    Ted
     
  11. Mark Zimmer

    Mark Zimmer Producer

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    I'll check that tonight as I write up my review.

    I did find the HD transfer disappointing; lots of visible edge enhancement for no good reason.
     
  12. Rob_HD

    Rob_HD Stunt Coordinator

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    Sounds like it's lost 4% of the stuff on the sides - but the benefit is that the vertical picture will completely fill the screen. I'm happy with that!

    I know I should be publicly whipped for this [​IMG]
     
  13. Johannes S

    Johannes S Stunt Coordinator

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    Quote: ...having a new 480P SD correct OAR on one side and a new HD DVD incorrect OAR on the other side of the same new film.



    I just can't follow you on this "issue". ;-)

    First of all, the Standard DVD version is actually more "cropped" than the HD-DVD version, which is slightly "opened" to fill the 16:9 frame.

    "Rumor has it" was filmed flat in 35 mm and matted to 1.85:1 for projection.

    The HD-DVD doesn't "crop" anything, the "mattes" are just (very) slightly OPENED. I bet, you won't be able to notice it anyway, due to the overscan of most display devices.

    NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT ! ;-)
     
  14. Paul Hillenbrand

    Paul Hillenbrand Screenwriter

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    That's good to know.

    It's too bad they didn't specify: "Mattes" are opened in the 1.78:1 aspect ratio. Warner does say "Presented in a "MATTED" widescreen format preserving the aspect ratio of it's original theatrical exhibition.", for their 1.85:1 480P single disc (1.85:1 = theatrical OAR).[​IMG]

    Paul
     
  15. Chris Moreau

    Chris Moreau Stunt Coordinator

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    I think many folks here would be amazed at how much the aspect ratio varies from the screening of any given film in one cinema to that in another. In many cases it would make the difference between 1.78:1 and 1.85.1 look like no difference at all!

    This mountainous problem really is no more than a mole hill.
     
  16. Johannes S

    Johannes S Stunt Coordinator

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    100% agreed! Most theaters are not professionally calibrated and tend to overmatte the frame - sometimes deliberately to "create" the illusion of a "wider" aspect. ;-)

    Personally I prefer the opened 16:9/1.78:1 formatting to the slightly more "cropped" 1.85:1 OAR, although the differences are really neglectible.

    @ Paul: ----> same thing with "Goodfellas", which I watched last night. A stunning HD-transfer, btw., with lots of film grain visible. It's a really great new experience to see the celluloid-emulsion's grain - in contrary to the highly filtered Standard DVDs.

    I really do hope that Warner keep up their policy, to NOT filtering "grainy" looking films from the 70's and 80's just to accomodate some ignorant people, not realizing that film grain is something beautiful and always reminds you where the image really comes from: FILM

    It is great to have Mr. Harris as THE film expert and competent voice here on this forum, who -I presume- shares my thoughts about film grain. Wouldn't it be a good idea for the studios to better inform their HDD-DVD consumers about the A/R and film grain issues?
     
  17. Nils Luehrmann

    Nils Luehrmann Producer

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    Agreed, except it does set a poor standard, and there is no guarantee that the studios will always open the matte instead of cutting out the sides. In addition, the trouble with opening the matte is that things like camera mikes, and film crew can occasionally pop up where the director had never intended them to.

    The vastly more serious issue is if studios don't get the message that OAR is critical, don't be shocked to see films with greater than 1.85 OARs cropped to 1.78 as well. I can't imagine anyone cropping a 1.33/1.37 OAR film to 1.78, but there are already examples of that with standard DVD releases so who knows.
     
  18. Keith E

    Keith E Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for that info Steve

    I honestly don't remember seeing this before as the only discs that I've ever seen the black bands on are my 2.35:1 discs.

    Hopefully this won't be considered off topic,
    but can you name a couple of movies where the 1.85:1 ratio has the black bands? I'd like to check on my system to make sure I'm not having severe overscan issues.
     
  19. Mark Zimmer

    Mark Zimmer Producer

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    As I recollect, Universal generally has tiny black bars on its 1.85:1 releases; KISS OF THE VAMPIRE on the Hammer Horror Series set was the last one of these I remember seeing them on.
     
  20. Mark-P

    Mark-P Producer

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    Not seeing black bands on a 1.85:1 movie would not constitute severe overscan by any stretch. Even a display with less than 2% (1.892% to be exact - I did the math) would not show the black bands.
     

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