RPTV "ghosting"... Calibration off?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Micah Cohen, Nov 10, 2003.

  1. Micah Cohen

    Micah Cohen Screenwriter

    Jun 8, 2000
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    I've been noticing this strange thing; that I'm seeing a ghost image, more like a reflection of light within the image, when watching some DVD films on my Toshiba 40" TheaterWide RPTV (about 3 years old). This isn't a reflection on the "glare screen" in front of the screen of the TV, it seems to be actually in the moving image. The lighting of a shot changes, a "shadow" seems to "follow movement," usually within the horizontal plane of the figure in the shot; the composition of flat backgrounds change as if the character is reflecting off them. IT'S LIKE THE IMAGE ON THE SCREEN (the background of a shot, for example) IS THE SURFACE OF A POND, AND THE FIGURE IN THE SHOT IS LEAVING RIPPLES ON THE POND SURFACE. I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this, and if you know what to do about it. I calibrate about every three months using AVIA, and in general stuff looks smoking awesome on this TV.

    To help, I've assembled a load of "reflective moments" from some of the films I've been watching recently (they follow below -- maybe you can use my notes to see the same thing on your DVDs of these films).

    Micah's Reflective Moments:

    Film: BURNT OFFERINGS (it was Halloween!)
    00:20:20 - Karen Black on the stairs. Ghosting/reflection images often happen when someone is standing or moving in front of a clear, pastel-colored background. I see Karen, and I see a sort of light-wipe that follows her and changes the shading on the ceiling.
    00:23:20 - Karen Black's face shot against the ceiling of the room. See how the ceiling seems to have a reverse-shadow, SHADOW-RIPPLES, of her shape in the horizontal plane in which her head exists? I do.
    00:33:20 - Karen Black again, throwing reverse shadows or ghosting reflections on the background color.
    01:05:00 - Karen's head against the wall color. Ghost reflection of glare changes the color of the wall.
    01:09:20 - Oliver Reed making a stand in the doorway; see the way his body shape on the background is sort of spread like a shadow across the shot, like shadow-ripples on the background?

    Film: SLAP SHOT Special Edition
    01:33:00 - Chapter 14, Newman chats with the team owner; people shot against a white background. Their movement seems to reflect on the wall color, some shadow (not from movie lighting) moves with them on the wall, in the plane of their bodies.
    01:42:00 - Michael Ontkean walks by the camera, his movement ghosts, reflects light and changes the color of his surroundings.

    Film: BREAKFAST CLUB High School Reunion Edition
    00:25:30 - A medium shot of three characters, watch when they move how their movements "reflect" on the surrounding film.
    00:30:00 - Watch the bottom of the screen as Ally Sheedy steals Judd Nelson's soda off the table. Do you see her movement-reflection stretch the horizontal length of the shot, darkening even the globe all the way to the left?
    00:40:20 - Judd Nelson in front of the statue doing his family impressions, as he moves he changes the light around him, or is it just me?
    00:43:40 - Watch Paul Gleason's "reflection" in the wood door; the light changes when he walks by. (But again, it's not a movie lighting thing, it seems to be a reflection within my TV, on my screen - only in the plane of his movement, like pond ripples in shadow.)
    01:27:25 - Judd Nelson dancing, ghost reflection ripples change the light in the shot.

    Film: HULK (Ang Lee, Dir.)
    01:24:00 - Watch this close-up of Sam Elliot's head against the background (also happens in Chapter 17, another close up of Sam Elliot against a solid background). It's as if his head is making shadow ripples on the background.

    01:23:00 - I know it's animation, and it's supposed to be underwater with all sorts of shadows and light effects, but watch Dory's "ghost" as she's talking shot against the solid background; is it me, or does it look like she's setting off shadow ripples on the horizontal plane of her body?

    HELP! Obviously, this is driving me nuts. What calibration setting will eliminate or reduce this glare-ghost-reflection-ripple-light anomaly? Any help would be appreciated!

  2. Alden

    Alden Auditioning

    Nov 10, 2003
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    I myself have noticed the "ghosting" around Nemo.I thought the calibration on my 61 inch Toshiba was worse than I already thought it was. Not happy about the calibration that I had done in March of this year. I get a white blooming effect about 1/3 of the top of screen.I also have to adjust almost every aspect of the T V ie:contrast,color,brightness.The guy that did it had to write down the numbers so i could change it every time i watch a dvd then change it back to regular T V (DirecTv Tivo)Any answers to that one ? Is this somewhat normal.Thanks:Alden [​IMG]
  3. Chad B

    Chad B Stunt Coordinator

    Jul 5, 2001
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    Hello Micah and Alden,

    I checked out the Finding Nemo scene. On my calibrated Mitsubishi, I only saw what I believe the filmmaker intended. There is a glow around Dori, and also a shadow that goes down and to the left, which is supposed to indicate the sun above the water. There was no glow around Marlin. I guess they made it so the blue fish would glow in the blue water, but maybe orange (Marlin) wouldn't glow in the blue water.
    Micah, I think what you're describing are internal reflections. When a RPTV projects a bright image against a dark background, most of the light is projected through the screen to the front. However, a small percentage of the light from the bright image bounces off the rear of the screen and reflects back into the cabinet. If it is not absorbed, it then bounces around in the cabinet and eventually projects back onto the screen, in a much more diffuse and distorted form. That's why manufacturers paint the inside of the cabinets black, and really picky people sometimes line the insides of RPTV's with black felt or duvetyne. I recently lined an area right behind the top of the screen, in front of the mirror, with black felt; when I sit a little lower than normal (laying on the couch or sitting on the floor) I notice a huge improvement. At normal viewing height it's not so apparent, but my TV never seemed overly problematic in the first place.
    Alden, there is a way to calibrate Toshibas seperately for each input or scan rate, but it involves a portion of the service menu that is totally indecipherable code. Toshiba is extremely reluctant to give out the top secret codes to ISF calibrators. I've been on their list for months. I even talked to the head Toshiba tech at CEDIA, where he told me he'd put me at the top of his list, but that's never happened. They make the few calibrators they do give the info to sign a confidentiality contract. So, without that info, all a calibrator can do is calibrate for one input and hope the others aren't too far off, or find a compromise setting.

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