Roy Disney supports Song of the South release - Eisner does not (1 Viewer)

[Lars Vermundsberget]

I'd say "Sr", Walt's brother, is usually referred to as Roy O. Disney - O. for Oliver. His son, the one we know today, has the letter E. for Elias.

Some may have noticed, but I'd like to mention that it's easy to change the name "Disney" to "Eisner"...

 

[Seth Paxton]

The most ironic thing about this issue is that Ebonics, or African American English, has become a recognized language by linguists in this more modern, learned era.

While Ebonics was the point of much ridicule because its use in school was misrepresented, it does follow a set of rules and structure as much as any other language. The point to utilizing it in school systems where many kids spoke it was to help enable teachers to teach formal English, not to let the kids just write in Ebonics or to teach them Ebonics. By recognizing the language structure a teacher can then show how in one langauge a verb tense is used and how that differes in another language, no different than teaching English to French students. You don't ignore the fact that they have already learned the rules governing French.


So anyway, here we sit with this greater understanding of a dialect/language that was once thought to be representative of stupidity or something, still is by bigots, but is now understood to be part of a cultural heritage and yet it can't be shown in a film.

Even as some AA writers celebrate* the unique styles found in Ebonics it is also still considered racist in other circles. What a F'd up country we live in.


* from one of my Anthro books - James Baldwin quoted as saying "this passion, this skill...this incredible music" and Tony Morrison (Nobel Prize winning author) quoted with "the worst of all possible things that could happen would be to lose that language"

Let's see, who do I trust more on black heritage Mike Eisner or James Baldwin?

 

[Ray H]

It actually stands for Edward.

Walt's middlename was Elias.

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Seth Paxton wrote (post #102):




Ultimately here, as elsewhere, such determinations are political matters.

 

[Matt_H]

song of the south should be released. I had to get a british tape to watch it since i was born the year they did its last theatrical showing. It has significance and far more racist films have been released (i remember watching some shirley temple movie where she's in blackface). heck the film takes place after slavery becuase otherwise uncle remus wouldn't leave the plantation.if they are worried about the kiddies just market it towards adults.as far as the ebert thing isn't his wife african american? if so i can see why he may be more sensitive than most about the movie. as far as eisner the sonner he leaves the better as long as his replacement isn't more of the same.

 

[MarkHastings]

and doesn't it also make Disney hypocritical for releasing the "Zippity Doo Da" portion of SotS on those "Song" collection videos?

I used to see "Zippity Doo Da" playing in the Disney store all the time.

 

[Alanna]

I had the fortune of seeing this when I was very young in the theaters back in the early, early 80s, most likely the last time SOTS saw a public showing of any type in its full length form. What do I remember about it? Some very funny cartoon segments by "Burr Rabbit" as my dad used to call him and "Uncle Remus" being a kind hearted man while everyone else in the "live action" portions were pretty "Evil". Yes, its a classic, and being a rebellious young adult (ha!) I'm sick and tired of this country's bigotry, whining and bellyaching over peanuts and pebbles. Everything gets so blown out of porportion. Anything that could be twisted as being racist in this movie will fly right over the heads of young children. Sorry, but its the truth! I NEVER thought of anything in this movie even being REMOTELY racist and I grew up in the deep, deep south!

For those that think its "inappropriate" for children: geez, you have issues! People are so dang sensitive these days - it makes me sick sometimes! Just my two cents.

 

[Dick]

Well, now that Eisner is staying, guess we won't be seeing this happen. George Mitchell won't be much help, from what I've heard. The two of them share the same philosophical bed.

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

Quote: "It actually stands for Edward. Walt's middlename was Elias."


Ray, I've read so many books about Disney that making that mistake makes me feel embarrassed. :b It was late and I was tired, I guess...

 

[george kaplan]

It's a bit premature to say that Eisner is staying for the long haul. This thing is still playing itself out, and I'm still hopeful that by the end of the year he'll be gone.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Rex, I will concede that some argue for it being merely a dialect (in fact I later said language/dialect). Either way though, it has been shown to have very distinct rules that it follows, rather than just being lazy English, and some of those rules have been tied to various sources, for example verb conjugation from original African languages that slaves were forced to learn English from (basically learning on their own since it is unlikely that the white slavers were putting much effort into teaching them English to any extent).


So my point remains that the idea that this dialect/language is offensive, bigoted, or racist based is silly. It represents a very real part of AA culture and one that shouldn't inherently represent a shameful part of the culture. It is just different, a very real dialect/language that people spoke, created from the special circumstances that AA were forced to learn English under.

It shows you that we put time between us and the origin, disassociate with the truth, or more likely let racist's apply their own meaning to it, and then something normal and harmless becomes evil in this misguided attempt at being PC.

IMO, being offended by this dialect/language is like being offended at the idea of the Negro League. It might have been born because racists forced the AA culture to create it, but the thing itself is fully a creation of AA culture and should be celebrated as such, which of course the Negro Leagues are. No one minds films about that subject and people love to hear appreciation for players like Josh Gibson or the differing methods of baseball created to keep fans in the seats and to infuse the game with their own AA cultural identity.



BTW, it should be noted that Tony Morrison just happened to write her own book titled "Tar Baby". Let's get that racist off the streets and burn her books...oh, er, she's black so I guess we won't. (nor should we in nay case)

And that makes you wonder if SotS would be racist if Walt had been black. Of course IMO if you view the exact same thing differently because of a person's skin color that is racist, the very definition of judging someone and/or their actions/words/art by their skin color.


But then again is ANYONE keeping SotS off the shelves outside of Disney Co? Or are they (Eisner) just freaking out over their own fears?

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Seth Paxton wrote (post #111):


I have no problem with your claim that the deprecation of AAE speech is a matter of value judgment and social dynamics. I've said as much here many times myself.

Where we part is in the assertions that what is called "Ebonics" today is primarily of African origins and that it necessarily represents an unbroken line of speech inherited from African sources. That remains unclear, and, as I said before, is a matter of dispute even among linguists. (The omission of the copula (is), for example, is a trivial cross-linguist phenomenon---that means it happens so often in the world's languages that it need not be proof of anything in particular in any given instance---, and the use of be as the habitual substantive verb is not unknown in other English dialects, past and present, so its presence in AAE speech is no proof of African origin, either, and, in fact, the latter is the lectio difficilior, or the less likely hypothesis.)

 

[Chris Farmer]

I have nothing directly on topic to say, just wanted to point out that this is what makes the HTF so great, two very intelligent, educated people starting a discussion on Song of the South and from there analyzing the gramatical origins of Ebonics. It's great.

 

[george kaplan]

The issues surrounding AAE are indeed quite complex, and political, though not in a liberal/conservative sense, but the more generic politics (e.g., office politics).

For example, if you use 'standard English' as your yardstick (and there's lots of debate about what to call standard English), then AAE can sometimes look like having a language disorder. Now, you can argue that this leads to more AAE speakers ending up being referred for services, but if you take AAE into account, then some argue that AA children who need the services, won't get it.

Politically speaking it's a mess. But what the hell this has to do with releasing SOTS is frankly beyond me. There are those who claim the same racial stereotyping exists in the crows in Dumbo, but there's no problem releasing that.

 

[Ray H]

No worries.

 

[Ernest Rister]

"There are those who claim the same racial stereotyping exists in the crows in Dumbo, but there's no problem releasing that."

Well, Disney fans were upset by rumours that the Crows had been censored prior to the release of the Dumbo DVD. The rumours were unfounded, but the nervous tension among the fanbase was there.

 

[Yee-Ming]

Hear hear. Also OT: is Yiddish considered a German dialect? I've studied elementary German, and what little Yiddish I heard on an episode of West Wing (the one with Toby's father) sounded almost exactly like German. And I remember reading every once in a while some comment that Yiddish is similar to German.

 

[Rex Bachmann]

Yee Ming wrote (post #117):




Yes.

 

[JeremySt]

Does anybody have some of custom DVD cover art they have made for this title? email me if you do? thanks!

 

[MarcusUdeh]

Yesterday people I helped my grandmother hook up her DVD player. She just finally decided to get one. As I pulled videocassettes from the entertainment center I ran across a copy of a Disney Sing-Along tape that had an image from "Song Of the South". My grandmother told me she wants to own the movie. So I go into why it's not available and I asked her was the movie racist and she said "Yes it is, but that's how blacks were portrayed in the cinema during that era". But she went on to say that she still wants to own it anyway. Now I never really had an opinion about this issue, but since my grandmother can say yes the film is racist but I still want to own it, then I'm all for it.