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Roller Derby. Yes, Roller Derby. It's back in a grassroots sort of way. (1 Viewer)

Frankenbike

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Frank Ensoftail
Originally Posted by Jack Briggs

But I guess I am asking this: Is there any sort of advantage to a skater when she is on a classic banked track? How does it affect the playing of the game? Is there any sort of advantage to a banked track in terms of the players' abilities to navigate it? Is it easier or harder to skate on a banked track?


It's different. You can use gravity for an assist in the down direction, but you have to climb like a hill in the up direction. Flat track this is neutral. Inside or outside takes the same effort. Banked track is asymmetrical, flat track is symmetrical.


Banked track maintains your momentum through turns. A jammer can keep building speed around the turns better and the top speeds are much higher. Sometimes motor vehicle speed. Blockers trying to gauge the jammers speed when they're used to flat track speeds often time their hits too late or their positioning. If the jammer spots a hole in the defense, she can go low or high with her momentum and cut laterally. I'm told that banked track really tests your reaction time more than flat based on what some skaters have told me. Not all the time, but when the game is going its fastest, it's a challenge keep up on what is happening because you have to turn your head fast to see what's going on behind you while you still have opposing skaters trying to knock you over, you have to think fast, and get your teamwork on.


The challenges and differences are why you find top flat track skaters like DeRanged, Demanda Riot, Jackie Daniels, Psychobabble, Angela Death, Swede Hurt, ReAnimate-Her and others, repeatedly joining forces to play games on the banked track. Once you could attribute to curiosity, but a few times means its something they like doing.


It looks harder in this respect: banked track always has one foot higher than the other, so it looks like you're skating uphill all the time. It's easier in that you don't lose speed in the turns, so you're not always powering up. But I don't see them coasting much.
 

CRyan

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Funny. Must be a fairly common name. The one I was referring to was a flattrack skater in Texas. I really wish there was a way to see banked track around here. sucks!
 

Frankenbike

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Originally Posted by CRyan ) that Team Legit is playing against the LA Derby Dolls early next year (January?). Their membership of TL changes up from game to game (depending on what the skater's own league schedule is)...but it's a pretty good bet there will be a bunch of skaters from Rat City and Demanda Riot from the Bay Area Derby Girls.Don't know if Rice Rocket will rejoin them or not. Team Legit usually skate under their real, "government", names.


This is a kind of "banked track vs flat track" discussion in XtraNormal form:
 

Jack Briggs

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At the risk of being accused of trying to keep a thread alive, I have to ask this now that I have reviewed the entire conversation. And the question goes to someone I've managed to overlook. Lucia: Are you still reading this thread? If so, would you mind elaborating on your post? You skated at a bootcamp of sorts. What was it like?


And, finally, is there any sort of chance that this national rediscovery of Roller Derby as a genuine sport will ever return to television?
 

Frankenbike

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Sorry it's me again answering the last question. I've been following discussions of this for years. Here's a kind of summary of those discussions:


1. Roller derby is mostly a women's sport at this time. You don't see too many women's sports on TV, since sponsors are lukewarm to the idea.

2. The kind on a TV program is the producers. Producers believe they're entitled to control all aspects of a television program, including casting and narrative. Which means they want to pick women who all look like models, and they want to ensure that the games are always close by compromising the integrity of the game. They also want reality show like "heat": skaters fighting or shit talking each other. This is what led to roller derby's downfall in the first place. Producers want a game (if they want derby at all) to be entertainment, and not so much a "serious sport".

3. Roller derby was a syndicated show when it was on TV, not a network program (at least since 1953). A roller blade version of derby was on TV around 2000 and wasn't syndicated, but it was canceled due to low ratings and being stupid (it was scripted from the game to the "heat"). The birth of the infomercial pretty much displaced small time syndicated program with a "pay to air" model. There is no syndicated demand for roller derby at this time. ESPN says they'll air roller derby if the producers (the leagues themselves) pay for the airtime out of their own pockets.

4. Broadcast TV is a 20th century model. The future is Internet capable TVs that can tune in services like Justin.tv, UStream and other services/models that crop up. Some TVs can already get YouTube.

5. If there is major sponsor support for the idea, you may see roller derby on TV, particularly on the sports channels. So far, it's been chicken and egg, where sponsors aren't interested in a non-broadcast sport, and broadcasters (including cable networks) aren't interested in something that comes without ready-made sponsorships.


In the meantime, you can watch many derby games live through Derby News Network. http://www.derbynewsnetwork.com/live There's only one game being "netcast" this weekend (LA/SD Derby Dolls championship). This time of year is the "off-season", but from January to November there are as many as 20 games you can watch in a given weekend, at varying levels of skill.


This is a one off event apparently, but if they continue sponsorship, it might pave the way to addressing #5 above: http://www.prweb.com/releases/Red-Bull-Banked-Jam/Roller-Derby/prweb4854294.htm The majority of games are self produced by the leagues, this one has Red Bull as the event promoter. The leagues themselves are playing by established interleague rules for the bank, with a combination of officials from both leagues without interference from Red Bull.


BTW, I originally came to this site to look at what people were saying about 3D TV (I'm gonna wait another year or two). Just stumbled on this thread. As you can probably tell, I'm a derby fanatic (I was introduced to the game by a co-worker who was a referee--he's moved on since, but I keep going to games wherever I am). I couldn't resist jumping in.
 

Jack Briggs

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Thanks, Frank. You clearly know about the game and any further insights you may have about it certainly are welcome here.
 

Frankenbike

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Thanks Adam and Jack! Now that we've had this discussion, I realize there's something else I want in my next big screen: wifi, full internet search and flash display capability. I'll want to be able to watch my derby on the big screen without having to hook up the HDMI output of my laptop to watch Justin.tv, Ustream and whatever else comes along.


Here's a couple of vids that explain derby. It occurs to me that most people don't know anything about the game. To me, how this is possible is beyond comprehension. Then again, I don't really comprehend the fine points of football, basketball or hockey beyond ball/puck in net/hoop/endzone/goal equals a point.

Flat track:

Banked track:


The banked track one covers most of the Western US leagues, but is outdated: Those leagues have been skating with 15 minute quarters for at least a year, rather than 12 minute quarters in the video. Minor point though. And it's not nearly as much fun as the flat track one.


And some cool eye candy.

Flat track: and

Banked track:


If anyone is near Everette, Washington this Saturday, there's a new banked track league that is having their first public game: http://www.tiltedthunder.com/ They're so new they don't even have team names yet. Expect lots of falling. It will be fun, but it won't be banked track derby at its best. In 6 months, it'll be a completely different story.


Also, Saturday the LA Derby Dolls will be netcasting their game on DNN. They arguably have the most professional production of any league I've seen. http://www.derbynewsnetwork.com/live/bouts/2010/12/la_derby_dolls_2010_championship_tough_cookies_vs_swarm This is their championship bout, which is all local teams within the same overall organization (called "intraleague"), except for one from San Diego...which bested all of the LA teams but one during the regular season.


Games between single teams that represent wholly separate leagues are called "interleague". This resembles the structure of more mainstream sports, mostly pitting cities against other cities (though some cities have more than one league, and games between them are still "interleague"). This is more frequent in flat track than banked because there are so many flat track leagues (over 650 in 21 or 22 countries, but only about 30 of them are really good).
 

Jack Briggs

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Frank, I do not say this often, but your mastery of Roller Derby rules, leagues, play, and on and on truly impresses me. Thank you for the links. And I will be at that warehouse on Temple tomorrow evening!
 

Frankenbike

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How did you like the game? I may be in Chicago this weekend, and might make the LA Derby Dolls/Windy City banked track game (LA is bringing the track). I'm playing it by ear.


From what I saw on the web, last Saturday's game looked pretty good. Looked like they were playing with the same kind of strategies I saw at the WFTDA Championships.
 

Lucia Duran

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Originally Posted by Jack Briggs

At the risk of being accused of trying to keep a thread alive, I have to ask this now that I have reviewed the entire conversation. And the question goes to someone I've managed to overlook. Lucia: Are you still reading this thread? If so, would you mind elaborating on your post? You skated at a bootcamp of sorts. What was it like?


And, finally, is there any sort of chance that this national rediscovery of Roller Derby as a genuine sport will ever return to television?


The bootcamp I went to was for woman interested in playing derby and preparing them to try out for the teams. It was crazy! Electrocution and Roxy Slide ran the camp. They taught us moves and skills and showed us exactly how these woman train every week. It was brutal. I truly appreciate the things these woman do out there. Tryouts are in January here and I was unable to make the speed practices during the week do to work schedule, so I won't be trying out for the team just yet. I'm gonna wait another year and really try and get to practices when I can. They have another bootcamp coming up next year that I am going to try and make.
 

Jack Briggs

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Frank: Saturday night was a blast, though I attended the event by myself (I was with some friends at the previous month's "event," which is what the Dolls refer to their matches as). I had always wondered back during the Seltzer days what Roller Derby could be like if played straightforwardly, without the scripted nonsense and rigged games. Now I know, and it's fun!


I do wish the old mixed-gender set-up was still adhered to (women skating the first period, with the men doing the alternate periods), but, other than that, I love the rawness of the sport.


Lucia, thanks for the rundown. If you do the next bootcamp and survive and even end up skating in the game, please keep us updated.


Now, this is why I can never again be a moderator here: This is the first time in four or five days I've been able to come to HTF.
 

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