Review: Marantz SR7300 AV Surround Receiver (1 Viewer)

[Doug Brewster]

Jeff,
Take a deep breath.
I totally agree that people take the Internet for gospel and it is not. HOWEVER... I do think you're being a bit harsh about people not being able to think. I believe they want to assemble as much information as possible and the Internet provides that. Unfortunately, most of the information in forums is tainted by anger, or the bias of the writer (guilty as charged ).
You remind me of a guy I knew in the late 70's. He had a partnership in a really nice audio shop that I use to trade with. He'd been there for many years. When audio surged during this time, his business did well. Things were looking great. He was making money and building customers. All of a sudden there was "good quality" audio available in many of the chain stores. Their prices were way under what he could sell for. Within a short time, he was out of business. Shortly after that, the audio market dried up. It was early 80's and the chain stores disappeared or changed hands. Good quality audio was replaced by cheaper and more poorly made stuff that could play loud and had alot of bass thump. It was several years before it began to re-surge.
The guy I referred to went to work for Magnolia HiFi. He's been there every since. He's 63 years old. I go to see him (and shop) at least 4 times per year. I never buy anything without giving him a shot. I'll even pay more to buy from him because he takes care of me... BUT... I will buy a product elsewhere if he can't come close in cost or value, or he just doesn't carry that line. He doesn't seem to take it personally. His partner did take it personally and was really hurt by the "lack of loyalty" of customers. He was angry and bitter. I never saw him after the shop closed.
The point of this is obscure but here it is:
People will try to get the best deal they can get. In the long run, it may mean they lose quality, service, and value. As a salesman (or shop owner) it is up to you to make a case for all that you have to offer and what buying off the Internet, from Best Buy, or anywhere else will cost. Don't be angry or insulting, even if they are making (in your opinion and experience) a mistake. Encourage them to come back and try again next time. Be honest about your ability to compete for their dollar and why you have to get more. If they do buy from you, deliver what you promised. Give them the extra service, consideration and cooperation that only is found in a smaller shop. Most of all, don't be angry, insulting, and bitter. Why would I want to pay more for something as subject to problems as audio equipment, then have to deal with anger, insult, and bitterness when I try to return it?
This isn't directed at you specifically, but at all the local dealers who are discouraged by what they see in the market... But... It's always been tough and tumultuous. It's a scary business to be in. Don't take that out on the consumer, or the public in general.
Doug

 

[Louis-Philippe]

Hello Cary P.

You said that the 7300 OSE that you listened to also had the hiss... Gee, I'm glad I exchanged my 7300 for a 8200. Talk about a major flaw with the 7300 series... It's to bad because it was a perfect amp for this price range.

lpr

 

[Cary P]

Louis-Phillipe:

Yes, I did the hear the same high frequency ringing tone on the 7300 OSE set up at my dealer. I've listened to three different 7300's over the last couple of months and they've all exhibited the high frequency ringing noise.

I'm interested if anyone out there has a 7300 that absolutely DOES NOT exhibit the high frequency ringing noise. I'm not talking about the normal level of hiss if one puts their ear close to the speaker, there is a clear, high frequency tone that can be heard on top of the normal level of hiss.

I would like to determine if the defect is just part of a bad batch of receivers, or if it is a design flaw on all units. Although the ringing is very low in level and can be tolerated in most cases, I doubt if the 7300 meets its stated noise specs with the ringing noise present.

Perhaps this is not the proper thread to bring this up, but what exactly could cause this high frequency ringing noise and how might it be fixed? What DSP and DAC chips are in the 7300, and could these chips be the culprit? The ringing noise is only present with digital inputs, or analog inputs in DSP mode - so this leads me to believe the digital processing is at fault in some way.

I am trying to find a solution to the ringing noise problem, because I otherwise like the SR7300 and really don't want to return it - there are no acceptable alternatives for me in it's price range.

Cary

 

[Rick CH]

The Marantz website has a press release on a switch made to Cirrus Logic for signal processors.
http://www.marantz.com/p_prod_releas...id=223&cont=AM
This excerpt may be the critical piece of information:
"The enhancements are made possible by Cirrus Logic’s CS49400 digital signal processor (DSP), which powers the SR7300 model, and by Cirrus’ CS49329 DSP, which powers the SR6300, SR5300 and SR4300 models"

 

[Jeff D.]

Could someone give me a detailed description of this high-frequency hiss problem? Ie. does it occur on all sources? Does its level change with that of the volume control or is it constant? On digital inputs AND analog?

When I demoed the SR7300 I heard no such sound, though I'm not willing to testify as to its existence or not. If I can get more details, I will check our demo unit on Monday.

/Jeff

 

[Rick CH]

Here are my observations on the 7300's extraneous tone:

- It is a high pitched tone that is similar to the sound of your ears ringing
- It does not increase or decrease with volume changes; the tone remains constant
- The tone is rather low in volume and seems that most people only hear it when their ear is up by the tweeter. The quieter the room, the easier it is to hear. In my dealer's demo room, it was barely audible with ear pressed up to the speaker. In my room at home, which is much quieter, I can hear it from my listening position.
- This tone is present when listening to sources with analog connections to the receiver (e.g. CD player) and the sound is going through one of the digital sound processing modes. It will go away when you switch to Source Direct.
- I found that the tone didn't appear when I played CDs in my DVD player, which was hooked up via digital coax. But when my DVD player was hooked up to one particular digital coax input (I think it was the left-most one) and CDs were played, the tone was produced again. I don't have a component with optical outputs.
- I found that the tone was still produced when the receiver didn't have any components connected and it would go away when Source Direct was selected.
- When DVD movies were played, the tone was present and would cease while the movie was paused.

 

[Ed Teng]

I bought my set from Singapore - it's in Champagne gold colour at 230V 50Hz. I live in Hong Kong and didn't hear the hiss at several dealers' place when I was auditioning the model. Just confirmed again with my 3-month-old set at home (fourth time now) and still I don't hear the hiss. Moreover, Hong Kong being such a small place, if problems with this set had been reported before, it would have spread like wild fire by now.

So everything else being equal - both made in Japan, it's the colour (gold vs black), model name (SR7300/N1G vs U1B), power supply (230V vs 120V) that are different between the Asian/EC and North America model.

It would be interesting to know if those who have the Asian/EC 230V set have the hiss problems.

 

[ChrisDixon]

I did a "comparison" on the Marantz web site between the 7300 and 8200, I found this:

8200:
D/A Conversion - 192kHz/24-bit Crystal ® DAC for all 6 Channels
Digital Surround Processing - 2 24 bit Chipsets

7300 (and all the other X300 models):
D/A Conversion - 192 kHz/24-bit
Digital Surround Processing - Crystal®

No mention of the chip numbers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Crystal chips are made by Cirrus, right? They are one in the same?

Does anyone know if the X200 series used different chipsets within the product line, or if it has any overlap with the X300 series?

Chris

 

[Cary P]

My observations of the high frequency tone are similar to Rick CH, with one addition:

For my DirecTIVO receiver, which I have hooked up to optical input 3 on the SR7300 - I can hear the ringing tone from a few feet away even if the DirecTIVO is turned off and no source is playing. I don't notice this behavior on my CD (coax 6) or DVD (coax 4) inputs, I can only hear the ringing tone on these inputs if the source is playing.

I am running the S-Video and analog audio outputs of my DirecTIVO through a SVHS VCR and on into the DSS/VCR2 input of the SR7300. The digital audio output of the DirecTIVO is connected directly to the optical 3 input of the SR7300. I have the input for DSS/VCR2 assigned to DIG. 3 - AUTO in the setup menu of the SR7300. If I change the input setting on the SR7300 from DIG. 3 - AUTO to just DIG. 3 the ringing tone goes away on the DSS/VCR2 input! However, once I turn the DirecTivo back on, the ringing returns.

Perhaps the ringing tone is related to the auto sensing feature of the SR7300? I'm not sure how this feature works electronically, but maybe the ringing tone is added to the signal to help the SR7300 detect whether the analog or digital audio inputs are being used.

I'm probably grasping at straws here, just trying to figure out some logical explanation/solution to this annoying problem. To my fellow 7300 owners - please play around with the input settings of your unit and see if you notice similar behavior. Thanks,

Cary

 

[PeterCB]

My observations are also consistent with Rick CH's, but with one key difference. I find that the volume of the high frequency tone does increase with increasing volume (i.e., it is barely noticeable until about -20db, but becomes much more noticeable, especially when approaching 0db.

So everything else being equal - both made in Japan, it's the colour (gold vs black), model name (SR7300/N1G vs U1B), power supply (230V vs 120V) that are different between the Asian/EC and North America model.

According to the Marantz Europe Web site, the EC version is 110 watts per channel, while the US version is 105, so there must be other differences.

Jeff, since you work for a Marantz dealer, in your opinion, do you think Marantz will take action on this. The dealer where I bought my SR7300 has been talking to the North American sales rep about this problem for over a month, and doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. I don't think Marantz is even acknowledging (publicly at least) that there is a problem.

Besides sound quality, I bought a Marantz because I was expecting better service from a company that advertises its commitment to quality and customer satisfaction.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Chris PC]

How does the SR7300 and 7300/ose compare to one another. Aside from the copper this and gold that, I don't see a huge difference in the specs. I guess it depends how much difference all that hand-selecting does, and is there any significant difference in terms of the power supply?

How do these compare to the NAD T762?

 

[Jeff D.]

Chris PC:

The power supply will be upgraded. The rated RMS power will only go up by 5 watts, however my expectation is that continuous power with all channels driven will be improved.

Again, referring to the old SR7000/8000 comparison, the 8000's rated power was only 5 watts more than the 7000. However, with all five channels driven the 7000 was rated around 75 watts (as opposed to the rated 100) while the 8000 was 100 watts.

/Jeff

 

[ChrisAG]

Jeff,

One of the few things I don't like about my 6200 is the big difference in sound quality between regular modes and Source Direct. SD is much more dynamic and clean, which indicates a lacklustre preamp stage (perhaps due in part to run-of-the-mill DACs?).

I'd be interested to know if this condition still exists with the 7300, and if so, is it less apparent with the OSE version.

 

[ChrisDixon]

I too would be curious to hear how the 7300 or OSE compares to, say, the 7200 and 7000 in terms of stereo reproduction.

I felt the same way about my SR7000. Despite the lack of flexible bass management, once I heard the Source Direct, there was no turning back. The regular stereo mode simply did not measure up for music. When I upgraded to an 8200, I was pretty much assuming that I'd still use SD, but was very surprised to find out that Stereo mode sounded just slightly *better* than source direct.

Obvioulsy, the quality of the CD player's DACs is critical for determining Source Direct sound quality. But it seems that the 8200 DACs outperform those in my rather modest Marantz CC4000 CD player and the DACs of the 7000 did not. One possible explanation (other than the obvious different chip sets) is the rather thinly documented "Dual Differential mode". I've been trying to find out more about this for some time now. As I understand it, Dual Diff mode repurposes multiple DACs to improve two channel performance. I would really like to know more about how this works. If anyone can shed some light on this, I'd be very interested to know.

I'm very content with my 8200 at this point, but I often promote the Marantz name to people who are looking for good music reproduction from a receiver. Many of these people don't want to spend $1,000 or more, so the 7300 would be a perfect fit if the same chipsets or Dual Diff mode have been included in this model.

Chris

 

[Jeff D.]

Chris AG:

The 'Source Direct' function bypasses the surround processor. The sound quality differences have nothing to do with the preamp. In fact, as SD sounds so good, the preamp is clearly quite capable. This is evident in the fact that if you use the preouts on these units and use external power amps, the sound quality improves immensely. The weak point is the surround processor. The 'stereo' mode is in fact a function of the surround processor. Source Direct bypasses this.

/Jeff

 

[ChrisAG]

Thanks Jeff... so that means the 6200s DACs are the weak link, which is not a problem in the 8200? I wonder how the 7300 or 7300 OSE compares in this department.

 

[Ed Teng]

Hi Jeff,

The 'Source Direct' function bypasses the surround processor. The sound quality differences have nothing to do with the preamp. In fact, as SD sounds so good, the preamp is clearly quite capable. This is evident in the fact that if you use the preouts on these units and use external power amps, the sound quality improves immensely.

I am currently using the Marantz SA-14 Ver 2 as my source, the SR7300 as the preamp to an external power amp for my music and HT front. I use "Source Direct" for my music. SR7300 preamp sounds better than my original preamp that came together with the power amp.

 

[Jeff D.]

Chris:

It is important to seperate DACs from surround processing. DACs are not surround processors. The surround processor either decodes DD or DTS, or applies one of the optional processing modes (DPL, Matrix, Hall etc) to the signal (in the digital domain). When you see things like 96/24 DACs, those refer to the DACs that decode PCM data (ie. from a CD player). They may also decode information after it comes out of the surround processor, I don't know. But the surround processor and the DAC are seperate.

I don't think that the DACs are necessarily the weak link, but the surround processor. Try this as an experiment: send a digital signal to your receiver from your CD player, and set the receive to Source Direct. In this mode you are bypassing the surround processor but using the DACs - compare this to using the analog outs on the CD player - see which one you prefer.

Ed:

Your experience is not uncommon. The higher-end Marantz receivers have always been very, very good preamps. While I have not tried it in that application, I expect the 7300 to act as an excellent preamp.

I think this is often overlooked by those with the upgrade bug. Adding an external power amp to an existing receiver will a marked improvement in sound quality and is cheaper than moving to a whole new pre/pro setup. I'd argue its even more cost effective than some of the crazy flagship receivers.

/Jeff

 

[BrianPk]

I’ve been following this 7300 thread for some time and your comments about using the 7300 as a pre/pro with an amp were exactly my intentions. I’m disappointed that this whole low frequency hum problem has appeared and that there doesn’t seem to be much of a response from Marantz to resolve it. So now I’m spooked on the 7300 and will move on to plan 9 or so. I want to stay with Marantz because I will be using the receiver for music as much, if not more, than HT and like the Marantz sound for music.

So my options are (all from authorized dealers) to get a 9200 as a demo for around $2100 with a full warranty, a refurbished 9200 for $1899 with a one year warranty, or a new 8200 locally for around $1599 with a full warranty. With the 9300 and 8300 units starting to come out this may be a good time to get a good deal on a 9200/8200 as a demo or on clearance. I’m particularly intrigued by the refurbished 9200. In all my searches I’ve never read anything negative or heard any problems with the 9200/8200 so I’m thinking the refurbished unit should be pretty good, maybe just a cosmetic problem or a relatively minor defect. I’d appreciate any input on the refurbished model idea, some folks swear by them.

Also speaking of DACs or sound processing, I have to get a new cd player. There is a dealer on Audiogon who sells a Music Hall 25 with a Perpetual Technology P/3A. Would I be better off just running the cd player through the 9200/8200 only or through the P/3A and then on to the receiver? I’m new to this so I’m not sure if I’m adding unnecessary pieces of equipment and processing. Thanks

Brian

 

[gregD]

Brian... for a $200 difference, the demo 9200 is the best bet, if only for the full warranty. When buying refurbished, it is not possible to identify the nature of the rebuild. It may be a unit that was defective or it may be an older one that has simply been upgraded.

My lone experience was a refurb Marantz SR5000 purchased from accessories4less.com. It did turn out to have problems later, which likely meant that it was a defective unit that did not get completely fixed. It should be noted that AC4L was excellent in responding to the problem and worked hard to make it right. But the experience has left me wary of refurbs; it's a bit of a gamble.