Receiver VS. PreProcessor as a Prepro..Which and why?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by NickSP, Nov 8, 2002.

  1. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    My question is given a price range at or below $1000, does it really make a difference in using a good receiver or something like say an Outlaw 950?
    Do the better receivers such as the 3803, HK525, etc. do as good a job as dedicated prepro? I am in the upgrade mode again from 5.1 to 6.1 and am contemplating the Outlaw which I am currently trying out. I am also waiting for the HK325 and the 3803 to try out as well and then make a decision.
     
  2. Sihan Goi

    Sihan Goi Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    0
    As a temp solution its ok, but foolish as a permanent solution. Prepros are much better.
     
  3. Han

    Han Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2001
    Messages:
    262
    Likes Received:
    0
    From what I keep hearing, the preouts of receivers are an afterthought, so their quality isn't as high as the preouts of a true pre/pro. With that being said, if those things are equal, I'd go with whichever item sounds better hooked into an amp, and then which has the most features. The 3803 is very tempting, but I keep telling myself, the main reason I'm going dedicated pre/pro is for upgradeability. That means some future version of the Ref 50 or whatever comparable.
     
  4. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2000
    Messages:
    661
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nick,

    My opinion is that it depends on what your going to use it for. If music is very important to you then using a pre-pro makes a world of difference over a receiver. Having said that I feel for HT that the differences are MUCH less apparent. Reciever decoders, chips etc. have came a long way and most people probably couldnt tell the difference between a receiver and a pre-pro when using an external amp for both for ht.

    To me, a dedicated stereo pre such as adcom 750, rotel , tube pre, etc combined with a HT receiver gives you the best of both worlds at an affordable price. It is also my opinion that a ht pre-pro will never sound as good a dedicated stereo pre for music purposes, but a good HT reciever can match up to a ht pre for ht purposes.
     
  5. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    John, I think you make a pretty fair argument in favor of a prepro. However my question was (and this is more for the other replies to my question) if it makes a difference in the below 1K range.
    Don't get me wrong, the Outlaw is a fantastic prepro but I felt it was lacking a bit for music IMHO. I got my hands yesterday on a NAD T752(borrowed from a friend) and this receiver absolutely shines in music when compared to the Outlaw. HT is, if not better, at least comparable to the Outlaw but music was definitely better.
    The below $1K is very important as I have not seen either a prepro or a receiver which offers true upgradability and that's what makes the decision critical. In the end it is whatever sounds better I guess.
     
  6. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2000
    Messages:
    940
    Likes Received:
    2
    Yes, a good quality dedicated pre-pro should sound better than a receiver that cost the same. Of course, you will also need a dedicated amp.

    Using a receiver as a pre-pro is an upgrade path for many people, but is almost never a final solution. When I started building my current system I put most of my money in to the speakers. I then bought a good entry level receiver, with the intention of upgrading to seperates over time. I added a 5 channel amp last year and I hope to add a dedicated pre-pro fairly soon.
     
  7. Sihan Goi

    Sihan Goi Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    0
    From what I've read the Outlaw prepro is really good for its price, you're one of the first people I know that think receivers of its price range perform better...

    Anyway, I've auditioned a Denon 3801 with ATI power amps before, and compared them to a really cheap Parasound 1800 prepro with the same power amp and everything else, and the different was quite apparent, in favor of the Parasound. The soundstage, imaging, clarity, everything was better. Movies also sounded better, although not by the same degree. If the new 3803 is anything like the older 3801, then you could probably do much better.
     
  8. AntonS

    AntonS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
    Go with a receiver. A pre/pro would cost you at least twice as much as a receiver of the same quality because of the economies of scale.

    It's a mistake to think that pre-ous of a receiver are "afterthoughts". Preouts of a receiver are fed from the same preamps that are connected to the receiver's amps. The quality of those preamps depend on the quality of components and the design. There is no reason to think that on a good receiver any of those are compromised, as well as on a dedicated pre/pro they are not (hint: Outlaw's hiss.) Usually it's the amps in a receiver that are somewhat compromised as there is not enough space for them in the single box.
     
  9. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anton, that is what I thought all this time and agree with you 100%. On the other hand I was not sure as to why most audiophiles say that the preouts are compromised when most receivers fall short of their power specs and noise specs due to it's amplifier section.
     
  10. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2000
    Messages:
    661
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  11. Levesque

    Levesque Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    0
    I bought my Rotel RSP-1066 for around 1000$ US, and before, I was using a Yamaha RX-V3200 for pre-pro, with an external amp.
    The Yammie was an almost top of the line, cost me 500$ more then the Rotel, but was not even close to it in performance.
    I'm sorry, but the Rotel, a real pre-pro, will always beat any receiver used as a pre-pro, for the same price. The RX-V3200 was really good when used has a pre-pro, I was really satisfied and impress...until I put the Rotel in my system. I was swithching back and forth between both, and there was no comparison.
    I know people are trying to convince themselves that the receiver they bought can compete with a pre-pro, for the same price, but they are lying to themselve. I did a direct comparison, in-house, with friends, and we all agreed. The pre-pro was alot better.
    I think people that are telling that, are people that didn't do any direct comparison, and only go with specs, and repeating what they read.
    I was in that category, but after a real comparison in-house, I will always buy a dedicated pre-pro before any receiver.
    [​IMG]
     
  12. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    1
    I just don't believe that any receiver can match the sound of a good pre/pro, outboard amp combo, especially with two channel sound. I do like the idea of a separate preamp to handle two channel, as that would probably be the way to go for the most satisfying sound for things such as records and CD's. Otherwise, I feel it's best to go from receiver/outboard amp to dedicated pre/pro and amp combo. I've just listened to too many receivers to not think vastly improved two channel sound results from the pre/pro route.
     
  13. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    but a good HT reciever can match up to a ht pre for ht purposes
    ***********************************************
    So, suddenly ,when I switch to HT MY HEARING GOES BAD?
    huh...........
    pre-outs on MOST rcvrs are NOT as good as the pre-outs on MOST pre-pros...I'm sure that (insert your model here)is the exception..............
    Let's try to keep the "for the money" part out of the discussion, 'cause I choose not to shop with your pocketbook......
     
  14. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matt, correct me if I am wrong but your post was slightly confusing but even then I gather that you are strictly against using a receiver as a prepro?
    Are you suggesting that a receiver such as a Denon 4802 has an inferior preamp section than the Outlaw 950?
    Most shoppers do watch their pocketbook and want to make a very informed decision and there is nothing wrong with that. Everything in life (at least for me) has a certain priority, even for my audio hobby!
     
  15. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 15, 2002
    Messages:
    390
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually you bring up Outlaw and I must confess I don't know the quality of components they use for their pre-out drivers....but even the technical engineers from Denon (among other brands) have told me that they don't engineer this section very well in regards to keeping it away from noise sources, quality of components, etc. and that when they (denon) make cost cutting solutions this section, because it is so rarely used, takes a beating ...the engineers said they spent a whole lot MORE money and time in the AVP8000(?) PRE-OUT SECTION 'CAUSE IT had to compete with stand alone pre-pros.....
     
  16. Jonathan M

    Jonathan M Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  17. AntonS

    AntonS Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2001
    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  18. Dalton

    Dalton Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2001
    Messages:
    1,202
    Likes Received:
    5
    Location:
    Rhode Island
    Real Name:
    Dalton
     
  19. DanaA

    DanaA Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2001
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    1
     
  20. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2000
    Messages:
    661
    Likes Received:
    0
     

Share This Page