Reasons why I think DVD-A will survive (1 Viewer)

[StaceyS]

I think there's a key element here, what about price?

VERY important! I won't buy a disc for $25 from a local store. I have not seen SACDs that low in price.
I asked one of the companies listed on the Sony website. They told me that currently have no plans for SACD and Sony included them automatically because they are a CD licensee. If this were true, I think there would be a lot more names on the list. Info does not really help but I found it interesting.

 

[PatrickM]

Price of the software is indeed important. I just purchased Naxos' first classical DVD-A for $16.99 CAD or basically just under $11 US. Not bad for a DVD-A.
Patrick
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Evidence of my obsession.

 

[RicP]

VERY important! I won't buy a disc for $25 from a local store. I have not seen SACDs that low in price.

I'm not sure whgre you're looking then. I have never paid more than $22 USD for ANY SACD that I have purchased. As a matter of fact Elusive Disc and AMusic Direct were selling all Sony SACD's for $17.99 a while back. That deal may still be going on.
If you look around the deals are out there. Not shopping around is not an excuse to bash something on price. Just because YOU haven't seen it for under $25, doesn't mean that there not out there for less, much less.
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Ric Perrott - My DVD's

 

[Dan Hitchman]

However, the Universal Music Group has signed on to support stereo and multichannel SACD. They are a frickin' huge super power in the music distribution world owning many, many record labels.
Time will tell.
However, without a standardized, high bandwidth digital audio interface for outboard decoding of SACD's DSD and DVD-Audio's PCM (with or without MLP compression) encoded tracks both formats will ultimately fail to catch on.
Dan
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Stop HDCP and 5C-- Your rights are at risk!

 

[StaceyS]

However, the Universal Music Group has signed on to support stereo and multichannel SACD.

Yes, don't forget Sony is paying for the Universal discs, so it is a win win situation. BTW, Universal is also supporting DVD-A.

 

[ReggieW]

Good question/statement Patrick M.
I to have also wondered how people are making "sonic" comparisons between these two hi-res music formats when the software just isn't Available for A-B comaprisons. Since nearly all of the music we have listened to in the past is PCM based (and will likely continue to be in the future), I really don't see a big advantage in going from PCM to DSD. I have heard both formats (SACD in two-channel only) and like them both. I personally own a JVC 721BK which is DVD audio ready. I really didn't hear much sonic superiority of one over the other, but then again, there was no software to make a proper comparison. One plus for DVD-A.....Is that it does have video/multimedia capability. I just picked up Respighi's Pines of Rome which also includes Beethoven's 6th for $17.49 at DVD Empire, and it is awesome! It has a 24/96 DTS track, 24/96 PCM stereo track, DD 5.1 track, and a DVD-A MLP track. The video is multi-angle and also sports an audio commentary by the conducter, biographic information, session photos, and even a multi-channel system set-up. This is how all DVD Audio software should be. I would like music labels to take more advantage of the video portion of the format.
Reg

 

[John Morris]

I also own both a DVD-A player(RP91) and a SACD Player(c555es) and although I haven't directly compared them when playing back their specific multichannel formats, I can absolutely say that I prefer the SACD player when listening to regular CDs. Even my Denon DCM-370 sounded superior to my DVD player for CDs.
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merc
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God Bless America!!!

 

[KeithH]

I have both a DVD-Audio player (Technics DVD-A10) and multi-channel SACD player (Sony SCD-C555ES). Unfortunately, there is no way to make a meaningful comparison between the two formats right now. Even those who have the Pioneer DV-AX10 universal player don't have enough software common to both formats to do a fair comparison (I believe Telarc's 1812 Overture is the only title available in both formats). Even if there were a number of software titles common to the two formats, one would have to question how they were mastered. Also, if one is going to compare the two formats in stereo, it is important to note that there are very few DVD-Audio titles available in 24/192 PCM to allow the best comparison. This is due to the preponderence of multi-channel DVD-Audio tracks. In short, comparisons between the two formats are riddled with flaws.
Based on what I have experienced with the two formats, I prefer SACD. However, I obviously cannot say that SACD is inherently better based on what I said above. SACD sounds better to me, but my SACD hardware (I also have a Sony SCD-C333ES and SCD-777ES) is better than my DVD-Audio player overall, in my opinion. At least in CD mode, my SACD players are superior to the 'A10. In any event, I prefer SACD based on what I have heard, the quality of the players, and the amount of software available relative to DVD-Audio. Still, I enjoy DVD-Audio and am encouraged by some of the titles that are forthcoming (e.g., Eagles Hotel California and Queen A Night at the Opera). Also, in spite of what I said, the 'A10 is a very capable player and was a bargain for the $380 I paid. I just don't use it for CD playback.
With regards to the audio capabilities of DVD-Audio players, the current issue of Hi-Fi News (UK) has a good article comparing the Onkyo DV-S939, Panasonic DVD-RA71, and Toshiba SD-900E. In some respects, the Panasonic 'RA71 is the UK version the DVD-RP91. The 'RA71 is not a progressive-scan player, but it looks very similar to the 'RP91. Also, the Toshiba '900E is the UK version of the SD-9200. Hi-Fi News stated that the three players in their test represented three of the best DVD-Audio players available in the UK presently. In the article, they stated that none of these players could be viewed as serious audio components. In essence, they said that these three players were video players first, with audio capability coming along for the ride.
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My:
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KeithH: Saving the Home Theater World Before Bedtime
[Edited last by KeithH on November 11, 2001 at 04:22 PM]

 

[StaceyS]

I believe Telarc's 1812 Overture is the only title available in both formats

I believe this is recorded in DSD. Kotches, you have spoken with them, any idea?

 

[PatrickM]

Stacey, according to the Telarc website the 1812 Overture was recorded in DSD. I don't see how its possible to do a fair comparison of the SACD and DVD-A versions of the recording when it was originally recorded in DSD and converted to PCM for the DVD-A. The SACD is in its native format and the DVD-A had a conversion process performed on it.
We may never have software to do a fair comparison unless the same performance was simultaneously recorded in both native formats.
Patrick
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Evidence of my obsession.

 

[John Haghighi]

PatrickM: You are absolutely correct, you cannot do a fair comparison with 1812 overture it was recorded in DSD, and converted for the DVD-A version. The techs at Telarc will even tell you that any comparison would be inherently flawed.
Another point to consider is that the DAC's in consumer SACD players are superior to those currently found in DVD-A players--which may explain why many people prefer listening to Redbook CD's on their SACD players. Even universal players have this limitation. As DVD-A matures so will the DAC's. IMHO, I think the format is better suited for multichannel/video music discs, there's just so much you can do with it. But without more software the format may be doomed. SACD may currently be in a better position to succeed given the number of titles and label support, but who knows how the average consumer will react.

 

[StaceyS]

Patrick, I agree 100%. There is a DVD-A and SACD coming out, it may already be out, that was recorded in both PCM and DSD at the same time. I can't find the press release, Kotches do you remember the name?
John, the Marantz SA-1 has a couple of Philips TDA1547 DACs. These DACs are VERY old, late 80's / early 90s. These DACs were once used in Audio Alchemy products. I forget the model, but something shortly after the DAC-In-The-Box.
So not ALL SACD players have better DACs.

 

[PatrickM]

Stacey, it'll be interesting to see a disc that was natively recorded in both formats. The problem with doing a comparison after that is comparable players. John brought it up in his post. SACD players started out from the very high end audiophile only world and is slowly making its way into mid-fi and consumer grade equipment.
The DVD-A players out there started out as mid to higher end DVD players not specifically made for audio only like the excellent SACD players out there. DVD-A is migrating both lower and higher although there aren't many high end DVD-A players out there and I doubt we'll ever see one that is dedicated to audio only. (As much as that's possible since there is a visual interface for DVD-A titles.)
Once we have a high end combo player that doesn't downconvert the DSD like the Pioneer DV-AX10 and a disc like you described above, then we can do some fair comparisons.
Patrick
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Evidence of my obsession.

 

[Craig F]

There is a DVD-A and SACD coming out, it may already be out, that was recorded in both PCM and DSD at the same time. I can't find the press release...

I think this is the one you're looking for Stacey.
Link Removed

 

[StaceyS]

Craig,
Yes, that is exactly what I was looking for, thank you.

 

[PatrickM]

A little off topic but I just found this out when I was playing with some DVD-A's yesterday. The first Naxos DVD-A, Vivaldi's Four Seasons, does not have copyright protection on it. I can get 24/96 stereo out of the digital output.
I poppped this disc in and noticed that I had left it on Auto input mode on my Denon 5800 and the display read Direct 96k which means its being fed 24/96 stereo via the digital output of my RP91. The recording is 5 channel 24/96 so its a downmix but still sounds pretty nice.
I tried out my other DVD-A's and found most will allow a digital output but not at a high resolution like the Vivaldi disc. Anyone else encounter any other discs that allow the high resolution out on the digital output?
Patrick
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Evidence of my obsession.

 

[KeithH]

Stacey said:

Marantz has also introduced their first DVD-A player. They are no longer under Philips and tied to SACD.

Since when did Marantz release a DVD-Audio player. I realize Marantz is no longer affiliated with Philips and is not obligated to side with SACD, but I have never seen a Marantz DVD-Audio player. Are you sure?
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My:
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KeithH: Saving the Home Theater World Before Bedtime

 

[KeithH]

I said:

Even those who have the Pioneer DV-AX10 universal player don't have enough software common to both formats to do a fair comparison (I believe Telarc's 1812 Overture is the only title available in both formats).

As I wrote this, I forgot that the 'AX10 is said to convert the DSD bitstream from SACDs to PCM. This certainly would not allow a fair comparison between the two formats.
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My:
HT Pics ; Equipment List ; DVD Collection ; LD Collection
KeithH: Saving the Home Theater World Before Bedtime

 

[StaceyS]

Keith,
The SA-12S1 is SACD and DVD-Video; the DV-12S1 is DVD-Audio and Video.

 

[Thomas_Berg]

here's a Marantz DVD-Audio player Keith
http://www.marantz.com/hifi/america/index.html
i believe it's their only one to date.
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-Thomas
My HT