Rear/Surround help!!! (1 Viewer)

[ChrisMcK]

Is it better to have 2 Dipole speakers as rear surrounds or can I use the same speakers as the left and right main as rear surrounds. Right now I have 2 MC200's from Cambridge Soundworks as my left and right mains. Will these be ok to use as surrounds also??

 

[Rich Malloy]

There's no "better", only your preference!

I recently swithed from dipole surrounds to monopole surrounds, and while they don't reproduce highly ambient sounds like rainstorms, wind, traffic noise, etc., as well as dipoles, they do everything else better. Pin-point imaging across the sides and rear, perfect timbral-matching of instruments, and an overall more cohesive soundstage.

And since I listen to alot of multichannel music on SACD, the monopole was the only way to go for me.

If you are primarily a "movie-first" guy, then it's down to your preference. If music is important to you, then I'd recommend monopole (though dipoles do well on ambient crowd sounds in live performances).

 

[ChrisMcK]

So if I were to use a speaker that can be manually switched between Dipole and monopole I would/could have the best of both worlds - possiblly

 

[Rich Malloy]

So long as it's a quality speaker and tonally/timbrally matches your other speakers!

Although in my experience, I think I'd only ever use the dipole setting for the occasional pro-logic soundtrack. I think discrete 5.1/6.1 soundtracks simply sound better with monopole speakers.

Impressions from others besides me would be helpful, but you need to be sure to satisfy your ears. If you can manage an in-home demo (many speaker manufacturers offer a 30-day trial), then that will answer your questions completely.

 

[ChrisMcK]

I'm going through Cambridge Soundworks which offers a 45 day trial period so I'll probably use the same as the main left and right speaker, these should work fine?
Again, I apologize for my ignorance - I just want the best for my dollars

 

[Rich Malloy]

If it were me, I'd do exactly what you propose: I'd use the exact same speaker in every channel possible. This can be difficult for the center speaker 'cause of that pesky TV screen getting in the way, but if one of your options is to use the very same speaker model for front mains and surrounds, then I say "go for it!". IMO, that's the only way to get a perfectly seamless integration of sound.

But understand that there remain some die-hard dipole fans... (not sure why they're not chiming in here)

 

[Anthony.Lin]

I'm kind of stuck in the same situation here - deciding between dipoles and monopoles. Thing is, Rich, you said that dipoles create ambient noise a lot better than monopoles do for surrounds, but isn't that what surrounds almost always do?

Most explosions and actions are played in the front two speakers, dialogue comes from the center, and ambient sounds/environment are usually played on all 4 speakers, so most of the time the rears are just playing ambient sound, except for that random gun firing behind you every several minutes or so (at most).

I have dipoles right now, but am seriously considering monopoles for surrounds, so any other feedback from both sides would be appreciated

 

[ChrisMcK]

Below is a reply from Cambridge soundworks on the question I asked about using the same speakers as my mains for rear surrounds

As for the surround speakers, you could use either the MC200s (which are my L&R mains) or the S200s (these are Dipole speakers). The S200s will give you
an enhanced surround effect similar to the Surround II 5.1 (what I'm currently using for rears), but they are also tonally matched to
your front speakers. The Surround II 5.1s are more closely matched to the classic CSW speakers
(Ensemble, Ensemble II, etc).

Let me know what you think of this response

 

[Rich Malloy]

Thing is, Rich, you said that dipoles create ambient noise a lot better than monopoles do for surrounds, but isn't that what surrounds almost always do?

I'd be hardpressed to break it down, but I can say that I've been much more satisfied with my monopole surround speakers than I was previously with my dipoles (however, the monopoles are also of higher quality).

IMO, ambient sounds are not as common as discrete effects, at least with more contemporary films with 5.1 soundtracks. And very often music is mixed into the rear channels, and sounds much superior to my ears being produced by monopole speakers. Dipoles make it all diffuse and mushy and unfocused.

And dipoles simply sound different than monopoles, even those that share identical tweeters (or even all-identical drivers). Effects that move from the front to rear or vice/versa undergo a notable change in the character of sound when passed from a monople to a dipole speaker. Let me give you an example: I watched "Run Lola Run" for the first time since changing to monopoles last weekend, and I flipped when I saw (heard) the scene that takes us inside the roulette wheel as the ball encircles the room. Previously, it was difficult to make out the trajectory of the ball and this effect was minimized. Now, it sounded as though I really was sitting in a roulette wheel!

And if you ever plan to add multichannel SACD or DVD-A for music, then monopoles are the only way to go. Sure, for so-called "ambient" surround mixes like those for "Kind of Blue" or "Time Out", dipoles would likely be just fine. But monopoles would be better, and absolutely necessary IMO for mixes that place discrete instruments or vocals in the rear channels. The only mix where I think dipoles might be preferable is for a live performance recording where only crowd noise is mixed into the rear channels. The diffuse effect of the dipoles might render a more realistic impression in this circumstance.

IMO, monopole rear speakers are better for most applications, and identical speakers all around are best. And I can't believe no one has posted an alternate opinion. Are there any dipole fans left?

 

[Rich Malloy]

The S200s will give you an enhanced surround effect similar to the Surround II 5.1 (what I'm currently using for rears), but they are also tonally matched to
your front speakers. The Surround II 5.1s are more closely matched to the classic CSW speakers
(Ensemble, Ensemble II, etc).

Let me know what you think of this response

As you've probably heard for yourself, the Surround IIs don't match your main speakers. They have completely different drivers, a completely different cabinet - they simply will not integrate with your Newtons. I actually had a pair of Surround 5.1s (not the IIs) in my bedroom "theater" some years ago matched with the Ensemble sub/sat setup, and hated them. IMO, extremely poor sound quality with a harsh and raggy midrange and poorly-defined highs. I was thrilled when I finally retired them.

The S200s would likely reproduce diffuse sounds well, but they don't even have a proper tweeter. Their 2.5" so-called "mid/high frequency driver" simply will not give you the air and definition and pinpoint imaging that a real tweeter will provide. If you're definitely preferring the dipole sound, at least for some applications, then I'd recommend you go with the S300s as they have a real tweeter that matches your MC200s.

But if you're willing to spend $399/pair for rear speakers to get the S300s (or even $229/pair for the S200s), remember that you only spent $129 for your far more important main speakers! I'd recommend that you not spend more for your rear speakers than you did for your mains, much less more than twice as much for them, as that's simply not a good allocation of funds! Your front speakers are far, far more important. If you're spending more for one over the other, then definitely put that extra money in your front channels where it will really pay off!

And if you do have more money to spend, then I'd put those MC200s you already have in the rear channels and step up to the MC300 for $199/pair, or the MC500 for $349/pair for your main speakers and center. I believe each of the MC series has identical drivers, though the MC500 also adds two bigger woofers along with the matching 4" midrange and 1" silk-dome tweeter. This would be a far better allocation of funds than spending $229 for the S200s (no tweeter!) or $399 for the S300s.

 

[ChrisMcK]

I really don't want to allocate the extra cash for 2 additional MC 300's. So what I'll probably do is fo with with and additional 2 MC 200's as rears. So my speaker set up will be

MC 200 x 4 (left and right mains, left and right surrounds0
MC 300 Center channel
CSW Powered Sub

Let me know what you think of this. I'm hoping it will sound better than it does with the 5.1 surrounds

 

[Rich Malloy]

I think that'd be the easiest solution, but take advantage of that in-home demo period. It really takes time to gauge whether a system is sufficient for you, and how well it works with a variety of source materials.

And remember also that CSW has the one-year trade-in deal (they still have that, right?), where you can upgrade to a better speaker model and get full credit on a trade-in of your current CSW gear. That is, you could upgrade to MC300s or MC500s and pay only the difference on trade-in. A very good deal IMO.