R2 Gets Stiffed On Indy ? (1 Viewer)

[Anthony Neilson]

Bad news : the R2 FEMME FATALE comes with the Laurent Bouzereau (?) doc missing.
Horrifying rumour : the Indiana Jones set will include the
censored T.O.D (no surprise) but worse, rumour has it that the set will be "less good" than other region sets.

I don't know if this is true or not but - given that we constantly have to decide which region to go for - I wondered if there'd be any support for setting up this thread as a semi-regular heads-up resource concerning "less good" R2 discs.

It'd also give us a thread to point R1 forum-users to when they complain about R2 exclusives !

I know - I'll regret this post in the morning. But I really thought we were beginning to get some parity on disc releases. If this Indy rumour's true, it's a major step backwards.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Well, the difference is that you all have chipped players and multistandard TVs, so you have CHOICE Besides you'll escape speedup and get 4% more movie buying R1. It's win-win!

 

[Mark_vdH]

What Jeff said.

If I had to choose only one region to buy all my dvd's from, it would be region 1, without one millisecond of doubt.

However, because luckily I can choose, I will get the occasionally superior region 2 or region 4 title.

The grass may seem greener on the other side for Americans because it's only "news" on this forum when a R1 dvd is inferior to another version, but I can assure every American R1 grass is easily the greenest.

 

[James Reader]

Off the top of my head I cannot think of one Paramount DVD which has been missing supplements in R2 off the R1 version. (Not when Paramount own both the R1 and R2 rights anyway)

I would just treat this as a rumour until the full specs are announced.

 

[Anthony Neilson]

James, yeah. You're right. On reflection, I think it's unlikely the R2'll be much different. I DON'T think it's unlikely that we'll get the censored version but I guess I can't blame that on Paramount.

But Jeff, ok, we can get R1 discs by mail order (and wait even longer for them and run the risk of getting hit with massive customs charges ) but that's not the point. It's a matter of principle. Not so much for the likes of us but for the slightly less clued-up movie lovers, who are paying a third more for a movie like PSYCHO or THE DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL and not getting the documentaries.

You don't have the choice because you don't HAVE to have the choice. You can stroll down to your nearest outlet, pick up a DVD off the shelf and walk home in the (almost) certain knowledge that you've got the best and most complete version available. Don't take it so forgranted.

 

[James Reader]

James, yeah. You're right. On reflection, I think it's unlikely the R2'll be much different. I DON'T think it's unlikely that we'll get the censored version but I guess I can't blame that on Paramount.

We are getting the censored version. That has been confirmed by the BBFC who will not allow the DVD to be released with another rating unless the VHS release is withdrawn first (which Paramount is no willing to do).

I don't understand this no-dual rating ruling? What does it achieve?

 

[Julian Lalor]

I DON'T think it's unlikely that we'll get the censored version but I guess I can't blame that on Paramount.

Why not? The only reason it is censored is because Paramount refuse to release the film at a higher rating. Increase the rating, and you remove the censorship. It's a corporate decision by Paramount to allow the film to be censored in this way. And, as James has stated, Paramount always include all R1 extras in R2 releases of their films.

 

[oscar_merkx]

so far in the 3 years that I have been buying dvds, most have been R1 and I have never had to pay any custom charges

re Indy we will know soon enough and I was plannning on buying R1 anyway

 

[Steve Christou]

Temple of Doom was always badly cut over here, so it's region one all the way for me.
It's the only Spielberg movie to be continually censored in Britain, and the movie is nearly 20 years old, oh it's just really pathetic.

 

[Vincent Matis]

I hope this doesn't affect the rest of R2 !!

Cheers,

Vincent

 

[James Reader]

Why not? The only reason it is censored is because Paramount refuse to release the film at a higher rating. Increase the rating, and you remove the censorship. It's a corporate decision by Paramount to allow the film to be censored in this way. And, as James has stated, Paramount always include all R1 extras in R2 releases of their films.

Originally yes. Now it's because the BBFC will not allow two different cuts of a film to be on sale at the same time if the different edits result in different classifications. An uncut Temple of Doom cannot be released while the cut VHS is on sale at a lower classification.

Paramount could have the DVD released uncut at a higher rating if they withdrew their VHS release from sale. Something they apparently don't want to do.

Being as the edit is supposedly Speilberg and Lucas's preferred edit I doubt either of them is fighting Paramount UK decision.

 

[Anthony Neilson]

James - thanks for the (depressing info). Looks like it'll have to be the R1 then. A shame because Amazon.co.uk are pre-ordering at £28.99 for the set, which is lower than many sites are listing for the R1.

Oscar, you're very fortunate you've never had to pay customs charges. CDWOW absorb the duty price, so maybe those days are behind me as well. I found some sites that did likewise but, back in the old days, delivery time was immense.
I still think it's a bit "I'm alright Jack" though. What about the common-or-garden British DVD buyer who doesn't want to get into the whole importation thing ?
And I've got one other word for you : SUNRISE !!!

 

[Derek_McL]

For some people its just not practical for them to buy everything online (lack of credit card/ funds etc). I also quite enjoy going about once a week to my local HMV/Virgin etc and having a good browse.

Actually I'm not too bothered about watered down/censored changes in movies when they cross the pond,what infuriates me far more are the lack of extras on some region 2 editions of some films when compared to the region 1.

The Day the Earth Stood Still is a good example which comes in this country without the documentary the Americans get. When it comes to classic films there is also usually a lag of several months between the release in region 1 and 2. With Sunset Boulevard I just couldn't wait and bought the region 1 but usually I wait because there are so many films still particularly silents which are only available online from the US.

I probably order only about a dozen titles a year online, for practical reasons,I have to be choosy but it still makes me mad how unequal the regions remain. Some of the Fox classic titles appeared last week here in the UK including The Mark of Zorro months before the States but guess what,hardly any extras. I bought The Mark of Zorro because it was available at a bargain price but I don't understand why the studios can't streamline their release of classic titles over all the regions.

In fact isn't this region thing a complete waste of time for catalog titles anyway with real film fans getting hold of their favourites in the versions they want.I can understand it with recently released films but why region code films from the 30s,40s and 50s. Even The Slapstick Encyclopedia : a collection of silent comedy shorts (1909-1929) is region coded. Warners and Columbia even added RCE to some titles from the 30s you can't get here in the UK : Little Women (1933) and Mr Deeds Goes to Town (1936) . What is the point of that ?

I might be wandering a bit off the point here but not everyone has access to all regions (luckily I have) and not everyone can order or even might even want to order all their DVDs off the Internet. The fact the Americans get a much bigger selection and better extras is nothing new (that's happened for years) but its a pity in this digital age the regions can't indeed be made more equal.

 

[Mark_vdH]

I've had to pay custom charges (actually it's 19% VAT you have to pay over here) sometimes, but the last few months I've been pretty lucky. The last "interception" , seven USD 40,- dvd's from DavidLynch.com really hurt though...

I wonder if Paramount will release unedited versions in the rest of Europe. Like Vincent, I hope they won't be "lazy" and release just one version. Any Paramount precedents, James?

 

[Derek_McL]

To avoid custom charges at least for UK customers I use play.com and DC-DVD which seem to cover this in their prices or operate from a place where they can avoid this. Play.com is the cheapest but doesn't have as big a choice as DC-DVD.

 

[James Reader]

Play do get hit for customs now on expensive boxsets. And they no longer refund customer charges. I got hit on all three of the MST3K boxsets from Play.

As for the rest of Europe and Paramount Mark_vdH, I don't know. I notice all the R2 Paramount DVDs I own have an initial language selection menu before the main menu is displayed, so I would guess the R2 Indy collection will be the same all over Europe.

But it's only speculation.

 

[Anthony Neilson]

Yay ! Some support at last !

A few things . .

Mark - If the version of TOD you've had is uncensored, I think it's very unlikely that Paramount will impose a UK censored disc on the rest of Europe. If they do, you should boycott it.

As far as customs go, I bought the recent Image boxset of WAR AND PEACE from Amazon.ca. Their shipping estimate was so long I paid a little extra for the expedited delivery and DHL delivered it, thus avoid ing a potentially hefty customs charge.
Also, you may be alarmed to hear that there is currently an attempt underway (in the UK) to drop the up-to-£18 import
allowance to a lower level. If this comes into effect, we may well find that not so many importation companies are willing to take the strain.

Derek - I agree wholeheartedly. But it's not just documentaries. Check out DVD Beaver and see how often the R1 version is rated better on picture than its R2 counterpart, the supposedly superior PAL.
Menu design is another area. Look at the difference in menu designs on the Bond series, R1 to R2. They're small differences but the overall impression is that they're just not as concerned about the British customer.

One other general question : if you can buy high-street imports of cds, why do HMV and VIRGIN etc not import the R0 Criterion titles ? Is it down to licensing ?

 

[Vincent Matis]

Don't forget than many people don't have the luxury of a choice: if they don't understand enough ENG to follow a movie, a R1 DVD is not an option.
They're stuck with the lesser R2 DVD

Regarding Paramount European releases, some of their "mini-franchise" (The Godfather Collection and the Jack Ryan collection) were released separately in UK and in France/Belgium for example. Let's hope!!!!

Vincent

 

[oscar_merkx]

Anthony

in the last 3 months I bought various dvds that were priced higher than the £ 18.

Criterion Brazil cost me £ 28 from CD WOW and no charges, and the same goes for Disney Vault of Davy Crockett @ £ 23 from CD WOW as well.

I guess I have been lucky and if you read some of the threads at thedvdforums, some people get charged a fortune

 

[Anthony Neilson]

Hi Oscar

No, as I was saying, CDWOW currently absorb the price of customs levied on goods worth more than £18. I'm not sure whether this is because of tax laws affecting Hong Kong.
But at the moment, I guess companies can absorb the price if only one out of five packages get hit ; the whole customs thing is a lottery.
However, if the allowance falls beneath £18 of goods allowed before custom charges are levied, that means that many more packages will be stopped. Remember too that the Royal Mail then imposes a separate charge of £3.40, just for "presenting the package and paying the duty on your behalf". Many companies - not just in the DVD business - are going to have to rethink their policy on customs.
This is a pretty big deal actually ; many businesses have been vigorously lobbying for the allowance to be raised, and they're well pissed off that it seems to be going the other way. They're worried because they're going to have to charge more. A company like CDWOW may continue to pay duty but there may well be across-the-board price rises.
The upside, even now, is that R2 disc prices are so ludicrously inflated that it'll probably still be cheaper to import. I got hit for fifteen quid on the Hitchcock collection recently, but it was still cheaper than buying each individually.
The slight problem with CDWOW is that there are many titles they don't seem to stock.

By the way, that was a good point ; we shouldn't forget that we have it pretty good in comparison to our European counterparts. Respect !