Queer as Folk (1 Viewer)

[Mark-W]

Trace-
Well, I didn't say HOW Melanie
and Brian would become alligned (if they ever
do in this version), but your point is taken,
and I will refrain from non-blacked spoilers.
Yep, when I worked for The Gap before returning to
college, my district manager was very homophobic!
And MOSTLY true to your statements, for a few years
after, I found that about 50% of the male staff were
gay, but that because of the DM, we never knew about
each other until we'd bump into each other at
gay-centric events.
"You too!"
As for your comments about the US Show,
I still feel that Brian would NOT take Justin
in based on his behavior leading up to that episode.
It has nothing to do with what I did or did not
see in the Brit show.
Also, if Justin's mom has "veto" rights,
then how come she didn't tell her husband,
"You cannot make those conditions for living here!"
Why did she choose to be silent then???
It was clearest of all in that statement,
that Justin was going to not stay, and she
should've fought harder...
Brian is CLEARLY NOT responsible for
Justin's Dad being an asshole.
Justin's mom cannot blame
Brian for Justin not being in her house.
That fell squarly on daddy-o's shoulders.
(Did I mention I worked with adolescents in
crisis for three years? I have seen confrontations
before, and I know what is real and what isn't.)
Any therapist in the world would've backed her up.
And Brian stat in the
corner like he was supervising the whole thing.
Uh...no.
Mark

 

[Jarode]

I had a big, long winded response here but I decided to remove it don't frequent this thread enough for a debate.
I'll just close by saying that way we obviously aren't going to agree on this issue so I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Trace Downing]

Here's why I feel it's credible that Brian can let Justin stay with him.
Fleeting glimpses of Brian with a conscience/heart...
Mikey: "Your teenage stalker is back!"
Brian: "Leave him alone."
Mikey: " He's becoming a real problem."
Brian: "I think it's sweet."
to Mikey & Emmett: "No, we wouldn't let this happen. Because we are smart enough not to listen to any cute boy out there that tells us that 'It's really good shit'. You only do drugs with your friends, because they're the only ones that actually give a fuck about you."
He tells the exec "NO!" and sends him back to his ailing daughter.
He gives in to Teds wishes and decides to pul the plug.
He buys Justin's drawing...Not because it's of him, but because this is Justin's work of him. He wouldn't buy anyone else's picture of him...but Justin is a different story.
He really cares for his boy Gus, 4-5 separate scenes reveal this. You can't be an unfeeling cad and have enough love for a child.
Something in his eyes told me that he does acnowledge that he has some responsibility for Justin, after his mother leaves his office.
He may have looked like the cool psycho-analyst in Mom & Dad's living room, but I'm not saying the show is completely consistent.
What I see in the show is that Brian is smitten with the boy, and is challenging his personal worldview right now. It may not be perfectly concieved, but I got the signs enough to catch the message.
Maybe you fellas just didn't buy any of this. That's OK. The show isn't without it's flaws.
------------------
She say she does her washing in Tide.
And I say, Why you do your washing in Tide?
And she say it's too damn cold Outtide.

 

[Alan Light]

Mark, unfortunately I do not know the producers. An acquaintance of mine is very good friends with them (he can be seen in some of the bar scenes lurking in the background), and I've pointed this thread in his direction. I hope he's passed it along to the producers.

 

[Mark-W]

Trace-
I admire your perspective. I do remember those
comments, but they were just too fleeting.
But, to continue to argue your point,
did you notice how Michael mentioned to Brian
that Brian used to "protect" Michael from bullies
in high school?
(This was in last Sunday's episode, when Michael
was trying to figure out how to help his mom.)
So, they are giving Brian a history of
rescuing a few, highly select people.
Mark

 

[Keilan]

What I find lacking the American version is the chemistry between Brian and Michael.
In the U.K. version, you were able to immediately sense the lusting and longing for Stuart from Vince. With Michael and Brian, it seems like Michael wants Brian as much as a root canal.
My choice for the role of Michael would have been Dan Futterman from "Judging Amy" and "Urbania". He would have brought more depth to the role and the whole issue of "I'm not gay, just an actor" would not have a problem.
The actor chosen for Brian reminds me of the Toronto Boyband "B4-4". Watching him, I feel he's going to break out in a cheezy song and dance.
It's funny the reaction this show is getting from the so called "normal" audience. At work I had one tell that oh so famous line, "God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve". Oooh, how original. He considers himself to be God fearing and rightous, but he conveniently omits the fact that he just fathered a child out of wedlock (no offence intended to all single parents, just to this one idiot bloke).
Whatever.

 

[Mark-W]

Keilan-
(Great name btw)
One thing I am finding with my str8 friends,
is that they are less critical of it than I am.
But again, these are people who are liberarl,
and yet don't know a ton of gay men, nor ever
frequented the "gay scene." So when I keep
saying,
"The show isn't horrible; it just isn't
realisitic." They don't have a reality
of they gay club scene (or the men who inhabit it)
to compare it to.
They note it when something seems like "bad acting"
but not when something has a note of falsness.
Regards,
Mark

 

[Mark-W]

I'll keep this short since I have a class in a
few minutes.
I really liked everything about last night's
episode of QAF...except the whole Emmett and
his cyber creation thing just didn't work for
me. I couldn't tell you exactly why, except
maybe it was the talking out loud to him that
"crossed the line" for me.
As Alan mentioned, Johy Greyson
(who directed Lilies)
directed last nights episode, and it
was kind of nice to see a bit less of
the "whoosh!" camera work/sound effect
that has been beaten to death on the program.
Cheers,
Mark

 

[Gerard Priori]

The show continues being jaw-droppingly offensive. The whole Emmett imaginary cyber-friend plot was very insulting. I never would have thought that a show called QUEER AS FOLK, aimed at a largely gay audience, would sink to the depths of stereotype that I saw last night. Once again we're bombarded with images to tell us what it is to be a "real man" and how much more desirable it is to be one rather than a "nelly bottom." So, Emmett gets his wish and fulfills his fantasy buy eschewing his nice guy manners and becoming abrasive and rude.
-Jerry

 

[Keilan]

Early this I emailed C1TV regarding season 2 of the QAF uk series. C1TV responded with an offer for the season 2 series on dvd or vhs at 50% off!
The email states that in March I will be contacted again reminding about their offer. The email also contains a number with which I will use to receive the 50% off the order.
This is a great welcome. I'm planning to order both the first and second season on dvd. I recorded both seasons on vhs, but hopefully the dvds are closed captioned. There were times when I couldn't make out want the actors were saying. Same thing with the movie "Billy Elliot". Such a shame that Jamie Bell did not get nominated for an Oscar.
I think the best line from the U.K. series was Stuart's to Vince: "You're just a straight man who f*cks men".

 

[Alan Light]

I didn't find the imaginary cyber-friend story line offensive at all. It didn't occur to me to see the story line to be a lecture to all gay men about how to be a "real man." The story line involving Emmett was a way to be both humorous and insightful about the fact that people who are into online sex pretend to be something they're not to make themselves more desirable. I continue to think that while a lot of the criticism of this show is deserved, some of it says more about the psychological makeup of critics than about the show. I suppose if you're defensive about something to begin with you see certain aspects of the show in a different way than I do.

 

[Alan Light]

Keilan, unfortunately C1TV's DVD of Queer As Folk is not closed-captioned, so I doubt that their DVD of QAF2 in March will be either.
However, there is a script book out in England that you can order from amazon.co.uk (amazon.com's British counterpart) for about $12 including shipping. It contains the scripts only to Queer As Folk episodes 1-8, not the sequel QAF2.
I enjoyed reading it to finally find out some of the lines I'd wondered about.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/...991563-3579602

 

[Gerard Priori]

While I found the Emmett cyber-persona nonsense personally threatening to neither my femininity nor my masculinity, it was disappointing in the respect that at the very least, Emmett, as developed in the series so far, is the only character who doesn't feel the slightest need to appear "straight-acting." The story line played out to suggest that Emmet, being a "nelly bottom," is somehow less attractive and desirable than he-man of his cyber-games and all the more self-conscious because of it. From what we've learned of him so far, Emmett seems the least likely to go through such an identity crisis.
I personally know nobody who finds such abrasive hyper-masculinity desirable or attractive (unless it's pure camp). I see the plot line as one more reinforcement of the stereotype that all "faggots" want to be "real men," denying the reality that we are already real men by virtue of biology, regardless of affectations of style, dress, voice, or manner.
On top of my perceived message of the sequence that I found demeaning, there was nothing in the series so far that suggested it could support the level of fantasy seen in last Sunday's episode. Giving Emmett a personified alter ego with whom he interacted in public looked and felt completely out of place to me. I love when dramas surprise me and move in unexpected directions, but when QAF US is surprising, it is surprising in the worst way.
-Jerry

 

[Trace Downing]

I agree with Jerry on the "Cyber-self" plot. It just didn't fit in with the set-up of the show. When boundarys are set for fantasy in any particular show, the plotline should stay within those boundaries. Once it goes beyond those boundaries, the susspension of disbelief becomes harder to maintain. There were no devils/angels on the shoulders of any characters, so Emmett's manifested alter ego was really out of place.
What I don't agree with many of the ditractors of the show is about the "stereotypes...the worst images possible...the unrealistic portrayals of gay people". I just can't get too worked up over this. I'm sure anyone off of Northern Exposure, or even Melrose Place wasn't "realistic" either.
I'm sorry, but I've never felt the need for TV to do my PR for me. The sanctimonious tax-exempt will take ANYTHING and twist it to their own point of view...that can't be helped even if this show was the most PC on the planet.

 

[Mark-W]

Jerry and Trace-
I was thinking about how Ally MacBeal does use
fantasy, and while I haven't watched that show since
its second season (too busy), it fit the tone of the
show, and Ally and Biscuit are deemed "odd" for
their behavior...but it works.
Here, it just didn't. Jerry's point about Emmett not
having any issues with being a "nelly bottom," is
a good one, but again, Emmett was spouting that he
was happy about being a flamer, but we often know
that what people say, and what they really feel
are two different things.
The part I didn't get was this:
to "get off" on-line,
you probably aren't making up your sexual proclivities,
or you won't get off. Just what you look like, but not
what you like to do...
So, it is not like I could
have cybersex with a woman and act straight during
the whole thing and then also be turned on, right?
So, with Emmett being an aggressive top: well he
must have some of that in him, or he wouldn't be
able to get off on it on line. The only thing is,
I would imagine a "nelly bottom" dominating in a
swishy way, like an antique dealer would lisp
staccato orders at his poodle. Now Sit!
(And if anyone wants to take offense to
prissy antique dealers with poodles,
I have met several, so you are offended
by a reality...and the antique dealers
would probably ask you who the hell
you think you are to hold them in judgement.)
So maybe Emmett really wants to be a top?
I mean, how many muscle gods do bottom, and how
many drag queens like to top? Many many many.
Didn't you all ever hear the phrase,
"Man of steel, heels of helium?"
And remember that just a few weeks ago,
Emmett was having a catty conversation about
some buff guy, in red shorts, was working out,
and Emmett commented on how a friend
of his had been with him, was hoping he
as an aggressive top, but turned out to be a
nelly bottom. So....clearly it is an issue.
Also, it is realistic that many gay men,
right or wrong, want a man who can pass for
straight. You all have seen those personal ads
that boast (homophobically, to my mind)
"straight acting/appearing."
I don't think the show is out of line, for
showing something about our culture that
could be substantiated by looking at 90%
of the gay porn. Manly men are attractive.
Hell, Colt Studios wouldn't thrive if many
gay men didn't find butch guys hot.
As for the phrase "nelly bottom,"
(which I have used several times in
this post, and Emmett seems to think
the two words are joined), that is not
my reality. I don't think that because
a man bottoms he is less masculine than
a man who tops. I find that so...well
insecure and arcane. But I do know
those issues are still out there for
some gay men.
And for the record, I am happily versatile

Mark

 

[Trace Downing]

Well...Mark....umm...I have no response to that. Quite candid.

------------------
She say she does her washing in Tide.
And I say, Why you do your washing in Tide?
And she say it's too damn cold Outtide.

 

[Gerard Priori]

Mark,
I adore the image you painted of the prissy antique dealer barking orders at his poodle to demonstrate that dominance is not necessarily a "manly" trait.
I'm certainly well aware that men being attracted primarily or only to men who appear straight are common. (There's even a website called straightacting.com that offers a test to see how "straight acting" you are. There's an air of humor about the sight, but from reading some of the posts there it seems that there are a significant amount of men who take this stuff seriously.) I don't have an issue with the presentation of this mindset in popular culture; I'm sure there's quite a lot to say on the subject that's worth saying. Once again, my problem stems from the way the situation was presented on QAF US. If they approached honest topics and presented them in an honest and believable way, they'd get no argument from me. It's because I can detect no honesty in the show that I question their motives in presentation. It's not so much that they aren't presenting realistic character types and situations, it's that they aren't presenting these realistic scenarios in a way that I can believe.
Your point about ALLY MACBEAL is accurate. The fantasy works well in the world of that show because that's the way the world of that show was set up. QAF, on the other hand, didn't prepare us for anything surreal or hallucinogenic. Consequently, the imaginary alter-ego presentation didn't work.
And, once again, you are quite right, nelly tops are a reality and are common. Your reality tells you this is so; my reality tells me this is so, too. Yet, QAF US, in typical fashion, deals with the issue in only the most obvious and superficial way. The show consistently exploits stereotypes and never scratches at the surface to reveal what's underneath. The points you raise about what really may be going on in Emmett's mind would be prime material to present. Unfortunately, we're all left scratching our heads about the character and making suppositions because the issue wasn't given the weight it deserved. (Need I even say that they could indeed deal with the issue substantially and maintain humor and entertainment?)
-Jerry

 

[Michael Allred]

Never thought I'd say this but I actually feel more for and relate better to the UK characters. That show represented emotions/feelings far better without resorting to the awful "Lady and the Tramp" re-creation. I physically CRINGED when I saw that.
well.....off to listen to Megadeth
*puffs chest out*

 

[Mark-W]

Micheal-
How funny that you mention that!
While I thought it was cheesy,
I had one boyfriend, Nick (a pilot...vroom vroom!),
who sat accross from me one night while eating
dinner and said, "I know this is a cliche,
but here..." and he started feeding me grapes
one at a time.
So, that scene, while very cheesy, worked
for me. I actually liked all the social snobbery
of the chiropracter's friends too. I have been
in that situation too.
Mark

 

[Alan Light]

** SPOILER WARNING - Don't read further if you don't want to know a minor plot detail **
-
-
-
-
I just got advance copies of episodes 10 thru 15. My source tells me there is a new plot twist of a spurned lover suing Brian and he thought it was "very good, just what was needed as things were getting a bit stagnant ... Nothing seemed to be ADVANCING, just sitting there." So maybe things will be looking up.