Queer as Folk (1 Viewer)

[Mark-W]

My only complaint about last night's
episode is the same complaint I had about
the British verison: Micheal, (and in the
Brit version, Vince) is just too ignorant,
with regards to dating, to be belieable at all.
Like they have no idea what the hell is supposed to
happen on a date???
And they're nearly 30 years old?
Have they NEVER seen a film where people
go on dates?
Do they know ABSOLUTELY NO ONE who dates?
They assume that if there is no sex on the
first date things went badly?
I mean, even the biggest sluts go on
dates from time to time!
The level of emotional retardedness in
these blokes is just too extreme for anyone!
Otherwise it was a great episode,
I especially fond of the scene with Brian
and the baby. And Justin and his mom were
both funny and heartbreaking...
Mark

 

[Jeff Kleist]

I should jump to my boy Vince's defense, when I went out on a date for the first time, I had no CLUE how to act. Sure, I'd seen hetero dates in the movies, but there is no guideline really, in TV for how to act on a date with another guy. Vince is very much like me, one of the reasons why I love the character so much.
Jeff Kleist

 

[Mark-W]

Upon a repeat viewing toninght,
I noticed Good things I feel compelled to mention.
1) Sharon Gless (sp?) is waay more interesting
than her Brit counterpart. While I still think
setting the show in some make-believe version
of Pittsberg was the NOT the best way to go,
I can see now how they are juxtaposing the classes:
Mike's mom and Justin's mom,
Mike's lifestyle and the Dr's lifestyle
(diet Pepsi with a fine red wine,
a collection of comic books compared
to a collection of fine wines).
Speaking of juxtaposing, I LOVED how
they juxtaposed Brian with his son, Gus,
in a loving, true, rewarding embrace
with Mike in a back room with some anonymous stranger
in a shallow, false, and ulimately
unrewarding "embrace."
That is something I never saw in the Brit version.
Mark

 

[Gerard Priori]

Salon.com did a piece today on QAF US that I think is quite perceptive. Here's the link in case anyone who's interested may have missed it:
http://www.salon.com/sex/feature/200...ime/index.html
-Jerry

 

[Mark-W]

Jerry-
Ya' know what? That article was brilliant!
As much as I like the show now, I hope the creative
team behind the US version of QAF read it, and maybe
learn how to improve the show, if it has any episodes
left to write/film/edit.
Mark

 

[Gerard Priori]

Mark,
I hope you're right. I'd love if the creative team reads the article and tweaks the show accordingly. It'd be nice to have the show be as great as the original. I'm sure most of the episodes are already in the can, but we'll wait and see.
-Jerry
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[Alan Light]

I agree, the Salon article was pretty much on target. As much as I enjoy the show, there is a lot of room for improvement and I hope the producers take note. It's too late for this season, since filming is about finished, but maybe we'll see some changes next season, if there is one.

 

[Mark-W]

Michael A, whom I think I can call a good "cyber buddy,"
posted some good criticism about the direction the
US version of QUEER AS FOLK appears to be heading.
(He did so in the DVD Software section, and
since that show has yet to be announced on
DVD or VHS, I figured I would "wake up" this
thread, which is the better place to continue
the dialogue IMHO.)
Michael Allred was saying,
much more eloquently than I will paraphrase here,
that the US show does not seem to be celebrating gay
life, and that the characters all now seem self-loathing
(on top of being highly difficult for us to like
or empathize with).
Here are some of last nights themes:
Ted's Issue:
Ted wants to liked by someone,...really liked. He
wants more than quickie sex (which he never gets anyway),
and wants to NOT be rejected by every guy he approaches.
So he tries to meet men outside of the bar, and
finds that while he wants more sincere relationship,
he also still wants the guy to be a hottie, in other words,
Ted continues to be ONLY attracted to men who appear
to be out of his league.
Emmett is in the same boat, only
he is even more bitchy about it than Ted.
Michael's Issue:
Michael, and apparently his mother, seem to think
that romantic love only lasts when it is unrequited.
(That speech she gave to Emmett about Michael's gift
for giving sounded like the opening line to a book
that could be called, "Are You a Co-Dependant?")
And we wonder why they're single???
Justin's Issue:
He is young, ignorant, and out to get hurt, BIG TIME.
Brian's Issue:
He thinks that by being a jaded asshole that proudly
states you cannot rely on him, that he is free.
So where to begin?
How about Ted:
Per last night's episode
--I'll just identify it as the one where
everyone goes to the gay and lesbian
charity art show--, Ted went through what
many of us have gone through:
He is sick of the shallow people at the clubs,
yet he finds that he cannot become sexually
attracted to a man he meets in the normal world
because his date's body doesn't look like that of your
average club-going muscle boy.
So Ted wants a guy with a hot body, who loves
opera, and is also capable of serious relationship.
Well, Ted, get in friggin' line!!!
Ted, darling,
you want a guy who is out of your league.
Welcome to Rejection Blvd! Frankly, I thought
the guy you met last night was pretty cute.
Never to be mistaken for an Undergear model,
but then neither are you, right?
(Okay, I am being redundant...)
Ted will either have to get much more realistic about
what he can find in a partner...maybe a guy who actually
goes to the gym AND the library is not that hard to find,
but don't expect him to be better-looking than you or
look like he just fell out of Men's Fitness ad.
So, while Ted is having some major conflicts within
himself, and, I suspect hates himself for still caring
about "shallow" things like a guy's body, that is the
struggle many gay men grapple with.
(I am hoping the writer's continue to deal with this
issue and work towards emotional maturity.)
Emmett? What can I say about Emmett?
I used to like him, but now I think he is just
the most pointless bitch on television.
Never gets laid, but is so "over" the men
at the group he attends with Ted.
He is so not self-aware, that no wonder he
could THINK an Asian escort is in love with him.
(Emmett, hon, you better steal at least ONE of Ted's
33 dongs, 'cause they are going to be the only things
loving you!)
Michael-
Grow up. Go to therapy. Dump Brian.
Michael's Mom-
Grow up. Go to therapy. Dump Brian and Michael.
Brian-
Glad to see you bought the picture of yourself!
Have you decided that to be utterly worshipped by
one young twink is better than all the casual sex
in the world, or did you just like looking at
yourself through Justin's eyes?
Either way, even Michael's brainless, if sweet,
mother knows you're as immature as Justin!
RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT RANT
Why is it the only characters left on this show
I like are the women? Justin's mom, best friend,
and the dykes really shined in last night's episode.
Good for them, because I actually liked Lindsey's
partner a LOT last night. She was warm and wonderful!
So what is the point?
Well, I am HOPING that the direction
the show is heading in,
is that these men are going to start facing
their shortcomings and decide to become better,
happier people.
So, to get there, you have to stop, do some
self-reflection, and think,
"There are parts of me that I don't like."
So, some self-hatred is to be expected. And since
we have already discussed ad nauseam the lack of
subtlety of the US show, the awareness that
"I suck as a human being!" is probably going
to be overplayed by the characters...
Make sense?

Mark

 

[Michael Allred]

"cyber buddy"....
anyway, here's how i see it.
i knew there were going to be characters i was going to dislike to the extreme for one reason or another. however, 1-2 people from the UK show i felt a lot of sympathy for...this is something a good writer ALWAYS puts in his work. there HAS to be someone to like or else an audience will have no emotion invested in the show and eventually lose interest.
in the beginning, my fav character was Ted. smart, funny..the kind of guy you'd love to have as a friend because he's always supportive. though he was down on himself a lot, he gave you the feeling that, if you knew him in real life, you'd want to be there for him. THIS is essential, in a show with completely dispicable people, you have the one guy to root for.
initally i was hesitant as his UK counterpart died so i assumed he would as well. sure enough i am pleasantly surprised when he comes out of his coma. we see his character smarten up and realize there is more to gay life than mindless bars/clubs.
we see him finally meet someone who had a lot in common with him, that they had great potential together. Ted was going to be happy because he FINALLY knew what was really important.
then the QAF writers made their biggest mistake so far. they make Ted's character regress. he's no longer the "down on himself but still very sweet" guy but the complete fool who throws what could potentially be a great source for happiness away because of self-hatred. i say that because look at him back at the bar.....becoming rejected to ted is like you or me getting hit on. it made him happy in a sick, sad and twisted way.
so the ONE male character virtually everyone liked, (at one time) could even relate to, became this idiotic & simpering coward who at his very core, was no better than the vile Brian.
what exactly were the producers expecting to get from this? happy viewers? it's as if they decided to perpetuate this stigma that all gay men MUST lead empty, soulless lives. that to hate oneself is the only way to go.
i knew from the beginning that Brian was worthless, Michael was mind numbingly stupid in love and Justin just didn't have a clue but quickly became a slut.......just like every gay man is supposed to be apparently.
the US "QAF" does not celebrate ANY aspect of gay culture but insults it. it perpetuates the lie that one must fit in, look/act like all the others to "get some action" while forgoing any semblence of love. in fact the show shuns love as if it's a disease to be avoided at all costs.
with last sunday's episode.....the show has lost any claim to being a drama, a "groundbreaking" gay series that homosexuals should be violently happy is on the air.....it's nothing more than a low rent soap opera and that is the great shame.
if i wanted to watch gay men throw their lives away, i'd run along to a gay bar.
of course young gay americans will only see the eye candy of Justin....think that gay bars are some kind of hardbody heaven where all their dreams will come true. read "XY" magazine (or is it "YX"?) and check out the reader mail...kids want the drinking age to be reduced so they can "finally" get in, "finally"....as if it's their destiny that cannot or should not be denied.
having said all of that, i would not be here as a strong critic of the show if the producers would JUST LET SOME OF THE GUYS BE HAPPY! it IS possible, it's even been documented that gay men have found happiness in actual relationships. yes, it's true! where's Ripley when you need him?
------------------
My DVD collection--> http://members.tripod.com/~evilbaby/DVD_Collection.html

 

[Trace Downing]

Well, I think there is a lot of self loathing on last week's episode. But I also think there are some seeds of growth that have sprouted, as well.
Ted for example...
He was just resurrected from the dead. He tried to give himself a half-assed makeover, by going to that meeting group. Probably because he figured that that's what you should do when your given a second chance. However, by realizing that he's just as shallow as those clones he idolizes, is the first step to really examining what he really wants out of life, which is Mikey. He has REAL feelings for him and cares, but then again, maybe for the wrong reasons. If the writers don't drop the ball on him, I think he's really going to start to grow, and perhaps also out of love with Mikey, once he realizes that they're carbon copies of each other. His smile at Babylon, after he's been rejected by everyone he passes by, was IMO a realization that he's still alive, and that his friends are more important than any piece of ass in there. He's got a good set-up going right now. If the writers are smart, he's going to be a very interesting character.
Now, Emmett on the other hand, to me, has always been shallow. He's the typical bar queen that has not a clue of how his development has been "arrested". He goes on as if some nelly guru told him that all of life's answers are in the "humor of gays is how we survive" and the swish. Of course, this motivational speaker wouldn't be anyone over the age of 30. Take for example when Ted was in a coma. The other two were ruminating about life and death, and Emmett makes an immature crack about asking Natalie Wood about her night in the pool. In his mind, the subject of death is too deep and disturbing to be allowed, so he makes a joke to get the other "girls" on the right track. His behavior at that meeting group was spot on the way a nelly bar queen would act. I figured these twits out years ago, and they're not smart, just bitchy.
Justin has some room to grow as well. He just might get his first rude awakening when his football jock trick turns on him in the locker room next week. It's a wonder that the Faggot painted on the side of Brian's Jeep didn't faze him.
Mikey is just as hopeless, and shallow as Ted, but he just doesn't realize it yet. He's also clueless, which leads me to believe that it'll take longer to develop him. Maybe the narration duties should go to Ted in the near future.
All in all, I think last weeks episode revealed a little more story than the sex centric mood of the previous 2 eps. If they can only make these children grow up.
If the writers don't do anything with the potential, I'll be inclined fall in line with Jerry's asessments of the show.
T
------------------
She say she does her washing in Tide.
And I say, Why you do your washing in Tide?
And she say it's too damn cold Outtide.

 

[Alan Light]

I'm not blind to the show's faults, particularly when compared to the brilliant original UK version, but in defense of this version I have to say I'm enjoying it. Maybe it's that I didn't expect it to turn out as good as it has.
I might want to tweak a character here and there but overall I don't want them to "grow up," "behave," "be mature," "be responsible," or "be happy." I think all that would add up to = BORING.
As Antony Cotton, who played Alexander in the original UK version, said when that series came under the same criticism from people who viewed the show from a political agenda perspective, (paraphrasing here) "Maybe some people would want to watch a show about ordinary, responsible gays who sit and drink tea, but I wouldn't."
Each of the characters represents a type, perhaps in some cases extreme, but I recognize all of them. I've known them all at various times in my life.
I'm not watching the show thinking "what will the heterosexuals think?" or "what will the young gays think?" or anything political. I'm watching it for entertainment, and these guys are entertaining me. The people you love to hate are important to an interesting show (can you say Alexis Carrington?).
This re-make of Queer As Folk veers slightly into the politically correct preachy area from time to time, something the original blessedly never did.
I read all the criticism of the show and agree with much of it but I am enjoying the show nonetheless. Maybe it's a "guilty pleasure." Maybe I'm just amazed that such a bold show exists at all. Anyway, they have me hooked.

 

[Alan Light]

There were some interesting comments posted on another site from a guy who works as an extra on the series. The site is Link Removed
and here's what he said:
-----
Hello, For those of you who don't know, "Queer as Folk" is made here in Toronto, ON Canada. I know this as I work on it semi-regularly as a "Background Performer" (Extra). I have never, ever written anything that would be deemed a "Fan Letter", but tonight - you get an exception.
Just got home from a long day of filming (16hours) and I can tell you something right now: What makes this show work is the fact that you can see the respect, caring and downright fun that everyone is having. Oddly enough, a family in its own right.
I have been doing Background work in this city for about two years and been on about a 100 shows. By far, this is the BEST show I have ever been on. On most shows there is a certain unwritten rule about talking to the actors. On this show, they tend to talk to you first.
I have never seen a show that has so much Respect for EVERYONE involved. Even though I was there for 16 hours today, I am already missing the experience. Had they asked me, I might still be there.
This is the BEST Cast and Crew I have EVER worked with. Pardon me if I don't remember their "real names". But, Brian, Michael, Mom, Uncle Vic, Justin and Ted are fantastic to work with. The Director and the Crew are just amazing. So you know, the Cast and Crew with Hal(Michael) as a "ring leader) keep most of us laughing all day between takes. Never have I worked on a show and had such regard for those on the show as well. They treat us ALL like equals. You will not find the "Prima Donna" "I'm better than you attitude" here. From 8:30am this morning until 12:15am tonight, I was "On Set" for a Party scene. Yup, 16 hours! (No, I am not giving away details, but you won't want to miss this episode #17. It's pretty raucous!) To be honest, I could have worked another 24 hours on this show and still been wide awake. Also, from what I have seen - this show has been filming since July and you can tell how much the Cast and Crew all get along. So ... If you ever hear some show like "Entertainment Tonight" bad mouth the relationships on the show - Disavow it!
Honestly, I was on episode #1 (The street scenes) and they were all terrific then. At the end of the day, you can tell that it is all about one thing: They love what they do and they care about each other. I think, given time, it will be ranked as one of the best shows on TV.
BTW - They also care about YOU, the viewer. That is who they are ultimately doing this for.

 

[Michael Allred]

Alan, in what way is the show "daring" or "bold"? I mean it's rather safe in it's view of gay men isn't it? The *same* stereotypes over and over and over. The only way it could've been bold was to actually (gasp!) show one of the men in an actual relationship.
Now I never said the characters should be boring or safe. What worries me is that by a character actually being "grown up" or "mature", they're automatically boring to you.
While I'm sure guys like Brian exist, I also know that there are decent guys as well. If the show wanted *some* kind of realism, they'd have at least one grounded character in the group of friends. Not every group of friends are full of twins/triplets who think/act alike. Ted *could* have been that one who stood out above but the producers obviously felt they should play to the lowest common demominator.
As I've said before, I did like the show at the start (forgiving the bland, Eric Roberts-like acting of Brian and the tacky show intro) because I also saw it's dramatic promise but it's delved into soap opera status to me.
Looking past the show's opportunity to actually be something positive for the community, I would've settled for a well done & entertaining series. Upon viewing the preview for next week's episode, I was almost expecting Brian's "good, twin brother" to show up.
Come on, we should expect better than this but I guess most gay americans are starved for gay-anything. Give a well fed man a stale cracker and he'll reject it. Give the same to a starving man and he'll think it's the best thing he's ever eaten.

 

[Alan Light]

Michael, I think you're probably right that gay people in general are starved for "gay anything" on television and will watch shows that could otherwise be better for at least partly that reason. To be honest, maybe that's part of why I enjoy Queer As Folk at all. It's fun to see what they can get away with this week and yes, of course I'd call the show very bold. Have we forgotten that not all that long ago all we saw of ourselves on TV was Billy Crystal prancing around on SOAP wanting a sex change, and before that...nothing or worse.
Personally, I don't just watch "gay anything." I don't think Will & Grace is funny or entertaining, so I don't watch that.
I don't mind Showtime's Queer As Folk's soap opera status. It's fun an entertaining. Lots of little things about it may annoy me but overall I'm enjoying it a great deal more than 90% of other gay themed productions which are either preachy, boring, pretentious, gibberish, and so forth. I have quite a collection of gay themed movies and TV shows and I search out and view or buy just about everything, and you wouldn't believe the amount of junk that's out there - or maybe you would. Have you ever seen some of those Strand Releasing "movies"? Maybe about 1 in 10 are worth anyone's viewing time, and I'm being generous here. In general what we in the gay community are offered on video and DVD by all the companies is slickly packaged but unwatchable, embarrassing, amateur drek (ever seen GREEN PLAID SHIRT?? For your sake I hope not.)
Queer As Folk has a budget of about a million dollars an episode and it shows. For that, I'm grateful enough right there. It's in focus! The sound isn't muffled. They're way ahead of the crowd right there just for technical reasons alone.
The same stereotypes over and over? I don't see it that way, although I see how you could. I see characters of various types of gay men, all of whom seem perhaps exaggerated but basically realistic to me becuase I recognize them from my (gay) real life. I've known Justins and Michaels and Emmetts and even a Brian or two in the past - and some I still do.
I'm not watching QAF to see how it will be "positive to the gay community." That's all well and good but I've seen too many preachy Good Intentions productions and yawned my way through (did you see Harvey Fierstein's COMMON GROUND? Point made.). I'll take Showtime's QAF any day over that stuff.
Maybe this says more about me than about the shows but I'm ready to be entertained and not preached to anymore. I spent too many years looking at every gay character on TV as having to somehow represent us all, and I think we're finally moving beyond that. I hope.

 

[Mark-W]

I am not particularly bothered by where Justin
is in his "development." In fact, I think of all
the male characters he is the only one who seems
to be acting his age. He is behaving like a young
naive guy in love. Pushing his mother away, and
all of that stuff, seems appropriate for the character.
My Problem, which is the one I think Michael A was
originally addressing is that non of the male leads
over 27 acts remotely like anyone who has been in the
bar scene for over 5 years. Furthermore, they are all
joyless dolts.
I have no problem with them needing to show the
ugliness of where they are so they have somewhere to
"grow" to, but why are ALL the characters so totally
immature, clueless and fucked-up?
Can't there be one "wise" one in the group?
Do ALL of them need to be jerks at the same time?
What happened to balance and variety?
Why do the ALL have to have the SAME weaknesses?
"I'm gay and I am emotionally stunted."
"I'm gay and completely shallow."
"I'm gay and have no life outside of the bar scene."
"I'm gay and have no idea how to be truly happy."
"I'm gay and I have no idea how to have
a real relationship."
WHY HAVE IT SO ANY OF THE ABOVE QUOTES COULD
DESCRIBE ALL FOUR MALE LEADS ABOVE 27 YEARS OLD?
Some of my "bitchy" friends, the ones who never get
laid, are also some of the ones who sprout the most
sage advice from time to time.
People are inconsistent and contradictory...that
is human. These characters are so freakin' dependable
in their flaws that it is just frustrating.
In the last episode, I LOVED that Melanie got to
show her sweet and caring side to someone other
than Lindsey. I WAS WONDERFUL to see that she is
multifaceted! So far, the male characters (and Michael's mom)
are completely absent in dimension or complexity.
Why is it that the only people on this show I would
ever want to know in real life are Melanie and Lindsey,
and possibly Michael's female amour at the store?
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhh!
If the show continues to be this annoying, I
will probably cancel my subscription to Showtime
right after Further Tales of The City airs.
Mark

 

[Gerard Priori]

I am quite relieved at the backlash against QAF US, both here in this forum and in news and media outlets. If the target audience finally speak out against the show, we may be at the end of all the appalling gay characters on TV we've had to endure throughout the years and finally see some gay characters with integrity that approach the reality of gay lives. Sunday will be the first airing of an episode I haven't seen, and if they are going into a whole "Emmett goes through reparative therapy" plotline as reported in the software section of this forum, the show will continue to focus on unlikable and immature characters.
Even as a character study of emotionally immature gay men the series is abysmal. CHUCK & BUCK, rather than being an idiotic polemic that gay-equality opponents can use against us by demonstrating how shallow and emotionally retarded gay men are (as QAF US is currently being used by "family" groups), it presented a witty and fascinating story about characters living in their circumstances; I loved it.
If only QAF US would get over the paint-by-numbers characterizations and develop into a show worth watching. I fear I wait in vain.
-Jerry

 

[Alan Light]

Backlash from viewers and media?
Viewers... My friends all love the show - probably more than I do. I see mostly praise posted on other discussion boards.
Media... Entertainment Weekly gave it a B. The Washington Post put it 5th on the list of 10 best TV shows.
Yeah, I've read criticism of the show but it's far from unanimous.

 

[Alan Light]

I just noticed that there is an article on the show in today's (Thursday, 25) USA TODAY, on the front of the LIFE section. Here's the link but I believe it will only work for today because it looks like it takes you to the Life section lead story, which will change daily.
http://www.usatoday.com/life/llead.htm
The article mentions that Queer As Folk is now Showtime's highest rated series.

 

[Alan Light]

Showtime's Queer As Folk just began playing last Sunday in Canada on SHOWCASE channel. Below is a very positive review from a gay Canadian web site:
http://365gay.com/queerasfolk2.htm

 

[Michael Allred]

the media often likes to look "cool", "hip" and "compassionate" when praising gay themed stuff.
as for the gay community.....let's face it, the majority are about as trendy as you can get. QAF is a "hot show" so they just HAVE to watch it and and go ga-ga over it to fit in. young gays watch it for the "hotties" and older guys? most of the characters are wet dreams.
critically, the acting (with the exception of 2 or 3 of them) is laughable, the writing/script is just about as good as a soap opera, the direction is amateurish. it's not positive, uplifting, dramatic, well executed. the show is one big, HUGE stereotype..and a poorly made one at that.
just my opinion.....
at least the UK version made you smile.