Pyramid Schemes: still alive!? (1 Viewer)

[Justin Lane]

Quixtar/Amway definitely runs somewhat rampant amoung Christians. The church setting provides a widespread network of potential recruits. The church I used to attend, had several individuals in leadership positions knee-deep in Amway. Earn more, live a better life, give more to the church and everybody wins. Faulty logic, but that's what they sold.

Knowing friends and family members who have become IBO, I will echo what was said earlier about those becoming involved being well educated and holding advanced degrees (Doctors, Lawyers, MBA's, Engineers, etc.). These people all want a lifestyle better then what they currently have, though they way they live now is better then probably 75-85% of all Americans. The time spent recruiting others and attending events would be better served working a second job somewhere (they would probably make more working part-time at Wal-Mart for example).

If one doesn't like to go out an shop and wants to buy from themself, that is one thing, but in general Quixtar/Amway requires one to pimp friends and relatives to build your network. I personally would have a problem with direct relative being my "uplink", putting myself below them in the pecking order and feeling direct pressure to recuit more individuals so both of our networks grow. They also rely on selling the products directly to friends and family. You need a new so and so, so you might as well buy it from me. Amway expanded from just offering health care beauty type products in the beginning to carrying everything under the sun, like a Sears of J.C. Penny catalog. Problem was their products were 9 times out of 10 more expensive then the local store, so you were actually ripping off family members in the process of selling your wares.

Another common trait of Quixtarers is how they constantly rave about the quality of their exclusive products. I tried their expensive shampoo, and quickly ended up going back to the store-brand of my local grocery store. With so many people getting a cut of the pie, it is easy to see how products are marked up two to three times their actual value.

J

 

[Rob Speicher]

They'll either ignore or deny it. They're brainwashed, and will refuse to see it in any objective light.

 

[Moe Maishlish]

As I quickly came to notice during my interaction with Quixtar IBO's. With every serious & questionable issue that I'd bring up, the issue was always dealt with a "trust the system" or "give it time" approach, as if the business model itself was alive and could heal it's own flaws.

The sad fact is that most of the people who sign up for these things ARE in fact aware of the problems, but the promise of "easy money" is too much, and they succumb to the pressure. In a lot of ways it just seems too simple - get other people to sell for you. What they don't realize though is that's the exact line of logic that someone else used on them to reel them into the scheme, and that they're going to have to recycle that treatment to make any money at all.

One of my biggest & longest lasting gripes though has to do with what I consider to be false advertising of the IBO (Independent Business Owner) term.

Independent - You're hardly independent, considering how you are completely reliant on recruiting your own people, and having them "go forth & prosper" (so to speak). On top of that, you're placed in a pecking order, with your "uplink", "crosslink", and whomever else. Sure, you've got your own number, but you're still part of the "Quixtar" scheme, so how could you be independent? Start your own website with the same products that Quixtar offers at comparable or competitive prices, and THEN you're independent!

Business - Not EVERY business sells the same widgets... but with Quixtar I'm a widget salesman, YOU'RE a widget salesman, my uplink is a widget salesman, his uplink is a widget salesman, etc. If we're all selling widgets, then who's buying them? Us? But we're SELLING THEM! Business my ass!

Owner - The only thing you "own" in this model is your name, and the IBO number they assign you. No stock is handed to you, you have no affect as to the goings-on in the corporate decision making process (i.e. any regular stock holder can vote... but with Quixtar an IBO has 0% input). You don't own your downlinks, or your uplinks. The only thing you MIGHT end up owning at the end of the entire process is the $10 tube of toothpaste you paid to have shipped to your door.

Instead, a Quickstar Independent Business Owner is really just a Dependent Franchised Employee. A DFE if you will.

The more & more I think about it, the more I look forward to the day that the crooks at the top of this pyramid are marched away in handcuffs for scamming hard working people. What a shame!

Moe.

 

[ChrisArmour]

Yeah, ever since the night of the Dateline show, a forum that I frequent thats about MLM, specifically Quixtar, has been on fire with IBO's comming in and trying(unsuccessfully) to defend their "business". It really is amazing how crazy some of these people can get. I actually like it when Ambots start spouting off with the Quixtar rhetoric and making zero sense, it really shows rational people that have no concept of what MLM or Quixtar is, exactly what they are in for if they decide to become an IBO. One constant is the fact that if an IBO is given a public platform(the internet for example) to talk about the business, that IBO will surely shoot himself in the foot.
Hey Moe, good post, I really like the term DFE, I'm taking it back to my Quixtar forum and telling everyone.

 

[Moe Maishlish]

Hey Chris,

Go ahead I give you permission to use my DFE term, but under these conditions...

You have to pay me 5%, every time you use it. Of course, you can sell it to other people to use, at a 5% commission to you, of which I will obtain 5% of your 5% commission. If any of the people you've allowed to use it allow others to use it, then the same rule will apply to them.

I'll call this business "Quixand", considering how quickly everyone will sink into debt based on my buisness model.



Moe.

 

[Leila Dougan]

Moe:

ROFLMAO!!

 

[Tony Whalen]

Brilliant Moe!

I love the "DFE" term. That just rocks.

 

[Scott L]

My friend keeps trying to get me to signup for his website:

www.myxango.com

It has MLM scheme written all over it. Odd thing is every search I do for those terms just leads to sites with irrelevant information, pretty much all just advertisement sites. The back of my mind is saying they (the MLM companies) bought up a whole bunch of domain names and whenever you search for multi-level marketing it just leads back to them.

Can anyone find any information linking this to quixtar or something similar? I'd like to show my friend what he couuld be getting himself into.

edit- after some more searching I found that MLM's buying up domains and building random sites as undercover advertisements is true.


http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/ :rolleyes

 

[Tom-G]

I seem to be a magnet for these purveyors of the multi-level marketers. I've been approached by several "representatives" of Britt Worldwide. They seem to come out nowhere too. One person approached me at Best Buy and another at a bar/night club. It's quite annoying!

A few years back, someone tried getting me involved in some company by Meleluca, which sold their own lines of products--everything from soap to vitamins.

It's quite annoying, but I've gotten to the point where I have patience for these schemes. I politely let them know I'm not interested.

 

[D. Scott MacDonald]

I dabbled in Amway a little bit 20 years ago, and here are the most deceptive parts as far as I could see:

1. When they drew the circles, they always drew a perfectly symmetrical tree. You pay your downline the 15% they all earned, but your volume puts you in the 25% range, so you pocket 10%. In reality, if you are lucky enough to build any type of tree, it will never be symmetrical. What do you get if you sponsor somebody that does a million dollars business a month? Nothing, because you will likely be paying out the same percentage that you bring in. You only make money with a well balanced tree, but they never tell you that.

2. They make it appear that if you could simply build your business to a certain level, you can pretty much retire. But if they can retire, why are they inviting me over to their house for dinner? To keep your downline alive will take pretty much everything you've got.

3. In my experience, it is impossible to sponsor somebody that has achieved more social or business success than you. If you have a job as a trucker, you may be able to sponsor other truckers, and people with lesser jobs, but you won't be sponsoring doctors or lawyers. Hence, you are pretty much doomed from the start unless you are already very successful in life.

 

[Moe Maishlish]

Well, it happened to me again yesterday!

I went to our local Chapters store (Chapters is the Canadian equivalent of Borders in the U.S.) to buy a couple of books, and afterward took a walk around the mall to kill some time before going to visit a friend.

While walking around the mall, I was behind some guy who kept looking over his shoulder at me. I didn't really take an mind of this at first, and carried along my merry way, window shopping & minding my own business.

About 5 minutes later, on my way back to my car, I came face-to-face with the very same guy who stopped me and said "Excuse me, you look familiar... don't I know you?". Now, I didn't know this guy from Adam - he didn't look remotely familiar... and that's a line that I use quite frequently when I want to start a conversation with an attractive woman (), so my first impression was "Oh boy, this guy is hitting on me...". It didn't help that the entire conversation basically sounded like something the would lead up to the "can I get your phone number" line that I know all-too-well. He asked my name, where I went to school, what I do for a living, etc. The Gay Pride parade is this weekend in Toronto, and I know that people are coming in from all-over to enjoy the festivities.

Anyway, the guy proceeds to ask my name, where I went to school, where I grew up, etc. etc. etc. We're making conversation and I'm waiting for the "are you gay" type question (I'm not... but I have a few friends who are and have no issue with it), and then it comes out...

Him: "I have an internet business opportunity that you might be interested in."
Me: "Internet? How so?" (I work for an very large IT company, so it's my field).
Him: "You'd own your own business, and would be responsible for making your own money. I'm meeting with one of my partners this week, his name is 'Joe Schmo' and he's a Billionaire. If you give me your number, I'll call you and we can set up a meeting."

Oh boy... this guy isn't hitting on me, he's trying to sign me up under his MLM scheme!

Me :"I don't give out my number to people I don't know. Why don't you give me your card, and I'll call you if I'm interested. I've gotta go though - I'm meeting a friend in 2 minutes.".

Him: "Ok, well let me explain it to you."

He proceeds to pull out a piece of paper and a pen, and starts sketching the schpiel on the paper. At this point I'm really losing my patience, and I'm switching from passive "Happy Moe" mode to agressive "Get the hell away from Moe" mode. I actually DO need to go, and he's holding me up, even though I've told him that I'm in a rush!

Him: "You sign up your business and get a hundred points, and buy products online that would you need for everyday use. Then, you get 7 people under you to sign up, and they each get you 75 points..."
Me: "Stop. This is a multi-level-marketing strategy that you're showing me, and I'm not interested, thanks."
Him: "Well, after you sign them up, you make a commision off..."
Me: "Thanks, but I'm REALLY not interested. I've seen this before, and it's not my thing".
Him: "But working for [my company] is your thing? You could find a pink-slip on your desk tomorrow!"
Me: "I doubt it. Thanks, take care, and good bye!"

I came very close to losing it on this guy. I don't appreciate being accosted in a mall and being fed a line of crap. Does it say "sucker" on my forehead or what?

Next time (if there is a next time), I'm going to cut and run on the first mention of a "business opportunity". No happy banter or chance for them to finish what they're saying... I'm just going to walk away.

Moe.

 

[Moe Maishlish]

Well, it happened to me again yesterday!

I went to our local Chapters store (Chapters is the Canadian equivalent of Borders in the U.S.) to buy a couple of books, and afterward took a walk around the mall to kill some time before going to visit a friend.

While walking around the mall, I was behind some guy who kept looking over his shoulder at me. I didn't really take an mind of this at first, and carried along my merry way, window shopping & minding my own business.

About 5 minutes later, on my way back to my car, I came face-to-face with the very same guy who stopped me and said "Excuse me, you look familiar... don't I know you?". Now, I didn't know this guy from Adam - he didn't look remotely familiar... and that's a line that I use quite frequently when I want to start a conversation with an attractive woman (), so my first impression was "Oh boy, this guy is hitting on me...". It didn't help that the entire conversation basically sounded like something the would lead up to the "can I get your phone number" line that I know all-too-well. He asked my name, where I went to school, what I do for a living, etc. The Gay Pride parade is this weekend in Toronto, and I know that people are coming in from all-over to enjoy the festivities.

Anyway, the guy proceeds to ask my name, where I went to school, where I grew up, etc. etc. etc. We're making conversation and I'm waiting for the "are you gay" type question (I'm not... but I have a few friends who are and have no issue with it), and then it comes out...

Him: "I have an internet business opportunity that you might be interested in."
Me: "Internet? How so?" (I work for an very large IT company, so it's my field).
Him: "You'd own your own business, and would be responsible for making your own money. I'm meeting with one of my partners this week, his name is 'Joe Schmo' and he's a Billionaire. If you give me your number, I'll call you and we can set up a meeting."

Oh boy... this guy isn't hitting on me, he's trying to sign me up under his MLM scheme!

Me :"I don't give out my number to people I don't know. Why don't you give me your card, and I'll call you if I'm interested. I've gotta go though - I'm meeting a friend in 2 minutes.".

Him: "Ok, well let me explain it to you."

He proceeds to pull out a piece of paper and a pen, and starts sketching the schpiel on the paper. At this point I'm really losing my patience, and I'm switching from passive "Happy Moe" mode to agressive "Get the hell away from Moe" mode. I actually DO need to go, and he's holding me up, even though I've told him that I'm in a rush!

Him: "You sign up your business and get a hundred points, and buy products online that would you need for everyday use. Then, you get 7 people under you to sign up, and they each get you 75 points..."
Me: "Stop. This is a multi-level-marketing strategy that you're showing me, and I'm not interested, thanks."
Him: "Well, after you sign them up, you make a commision off..."
Me: "Thanks, but I'm REALLY not interested. I've seen this before, and it's not my thing".
Him: "But working for [my company] is your thing? You could find a pink-slip on your desk tomorrow!"
Me: "I doubt it. Thanks, take care, and good bye!"

I came very close to losing it on this guy. I don't appreciate being accosted in a mall and being fed a line of crap. Does it say "sucker" on my forehead or what?

Next time (if there is a next time), I'm going to cut and run on the first mention of a "business opportunity". No happy banter or chance for them to finish what they're saying... I'm just going to walk away.

Moe.

 

[Tony Whalen]

I find it TOTALLY unbelievable that these zombies try to recruit people in mall parking lots. That is just CRAZY.

(Not to say I don't believe YOU Moe... I just can't believe THEM!)

I'm just amazed he really had the lack of social skills to do that Moe. Guy must have already gone through all his family and friends I guess...

"You could find a pink slip on your desk tomorrow!"

My response...

"You could find my boot up your arse today."

Actually.. a serious response would be "if your 'business opportunity' is so great, why are you haunting parking lots to sell it?"

 

[Tony Whalen]

I find it TOTALLY unbelievable that these zombies try to recruit people in mall parking lots. That is just CRAZY.

(Not to say I don't believe YOU Moe... I just can't believe THEM!)

I'm just amazed he really had the lack of social skills to do that Moe. Guy must have already gone through all his family and friends I guess...

"You could find a pink slip on your desk tomorrow!"

My response...

"You could find my boot up your arse today."

Actually.. a serious response would be "if your 'business opportunity' is so great, why are you haunting parking lots to sell it?"

 

[Citizen87645]

Actually, you should have said, "Damn, I was hoping you were going to ask me out on a date!" Judging by his behavior he probably would have done it just to keep talking to you about the "opportunity."

 

[Citizen87645]

Actually, you should have said, "Damn, I was hoping you were going to ask me out on a date!" Judging by his behavior he probably would have done it just to keep talking to you about the "opportunity."

 

[Tony Whalen]

 

[Jesse Sharrow]

One of my good good freinds who I thought was very smart is involved in this. Man I hope it doesnt change him. He tried to get me in on it and it sounded way too good to be true. So I went home and asked my wife and she said hell no!

 

[BryanZ]

A few months ago one of my friends tried to get me into this.

Him: Great business opportunity.

Me: Its Amway.

Him: You buy stuff you use anyway.

Me: You expect me to buy 10 tubes of toothpaste plus pay for shipping for it plus store it when I can buy one tube at a time and save money that way?

Him: But your buying stuff you already use.

Me: No thanks.

And that was the last I ever heard from him.

Too bad as well they try and use the 'Christian' label. There is nothing Christ-like about that business and it is people like that who help give true Christians a bad name.

 

[Tony Whalen]

Well I don't know about that Bryan. I mean, "cleanliness is next to godliness". You pretty much GOTTA be clean if you are buying dish-soap by the bucket.