Pre Klipsch Aragon vs Parasound amps (1 Viewer)

[Eric A]

Ricky,
There you go again putting words in my mouth. Show me anywhere I state that I think the A23 is a better amp than the 2200II. You can't because it never even entered the conversation. Now you are going off on some tangent that I think the P3 is better than the PLD2000??!!! I do not know what you are thinking and I know you do not know what I am thinking.

 

[Ricky T]

Eric,

I just meant that if a Parasound employee said that P3 sound better than the PLD2000...just like one said the A23 sounds better than the 2200II amp, I would find that very skeptical.

I wouldn't worry about a difference of a few class A watts. And no worries my friend, just trying to deter you from rushing into something for strong cosmetic reasons

 

[Eric A]

One more thing. I do not know if I would trust what John Curl said over a Parasound employee. John has stated numerous times on Audio Asylum that he only works on the original design of the amp. He does not work with Parasound on a day to day basis. He has also stated that Parsound has taken his design and changed things afterwards. Most of these instances are for cost savings but some could also go the other way. I have seen numerous posts where John has deferred to answer a Parasound amp question because he did not know the answer and he stated that he does not work directly with the company and they would need to call Parasound. This tells me he may not know many minute details only the original design.

 

[Eric A]

BTW, I am having fun sparring with you. Keeps the senses on edge and the mind at peak performance. Also, I do not use smileys on purpose. It is a great baiting tool.

 

[John-Tompkins]

Two great audio minds colliding like Gladiators,,Titans on the battlefield of audio, defending thier honor,their amps and fending off blows of the mighty swords that swoop down to cut off thier inner audiosouls..Lined up in allegence to the "one" and only true emperor of audiophilism...Halo or non-halo, you decide.
TO THEE, I SALUTE YOU..

Regards,
MARCUS ARELIUS

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Hey Eric- I'm going to go off on another tangent in this thread.

I think you did get rid of the MC-8? I'm just curious as to what's next for you?

 

[Eric A]

Kevin, I PM'd you a reply as to keep the thread on topic because we all know Ricky and I have not taken it off topic.

 

[Ricky T]

John,

Eric and I are not discussing Aragon vs Parasound, more like Halo vs classic Parasound.

Eric,

I think John Curl only has significant design participation and parts selection for the upper models. So the lower models might not even be his designs.

You do have a point about new parts and other changes/improvements like increased Class A bias between the classic and Halo models. Probably similiar to Bryston ST to SST and Aragon 4004 based amps to the 8008 based amps. Maybe you can find a used A23 at a good price and see if it betters your Citation 7.1.

 

[John-Tompkins]

Right..right...right
Marcus Arelius will rephrase
Halo or Non-halo, you decide

Those who are about to die, salute you...

 

[Yogi]

On Proceed's Class A biasing:


Here is the response I got from HSG engineering:
------------------------------------------------
harman specialty group Customer Service CALL # 189561


7/22/2004 10:04:14 AM
Yogesh,

Engineering has advised me that the HPA series of amplifiers operates in class A
mode only at very low volumes - around .5W (one half) driving a typical speaker
load - 8 ohm. After that point it gradually switches over to class B mode.


Richard Krehmeyer
Senior Technical Support Specialist
Harman Specialty Group
[email protected]
------------------------------------------------

My friend who worked at the middletown factory of Madrigal (before they closed down) told me Proceed isn't biased at all into Class A at all, yet we all know how much smoother and refined it sounds compared to some of the supposedly highly-biased-into-Class-A amps. So, IMHO when selecting amps dont look at specs like THD, DF and Class A bias etc. and only listen with your ears.

 

[Brad_Harper]

I have to agree with Yogi in that some of you are putting too much emphasis on this Class A bias stuff. The truth is most amps out on the market can be biased into class A all you want just by changing the value of a pot (variable resistor). A well designed Class B amp can have extremely minimal crossover distortion such that you would never be able to hear the difference even compared to if the amp was biased into Class A.
Class A biasing in a Class B amplifier is done not for sonic reasons but for quiescent current reasons. If the output stage contains BJTs they need thermally controlled quiescent current to keep the output stage stable. The Class A biasing helps with this. MOSFET devices behave differently. So all this talk of Class A bias sounds mostly just like Marketing Hype for something that had to be there anyway.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Yogi- This is one of the questions I asked:


I originally was dealing with some generic customer support techs and they connected me to Mike directly because they were continually not able to answer the technical questions I had. Based on the other questions and answers I got from him, he seemed pretty knowledgable about the technical stuff I wanted to know.

Mike's answer does seem more consistent with the construction and operational differences between the Brystons and Proceeds that I noticed.

 

[James W. Johnson]

Kevin, of all the amps you have owned which have been your favorite and why?

 

[Yogi]

I know you didn't ask me the question, but of all the amps I have listened (and I have listened to many) and owned the best I like is Proceed (newest HPA2 to my addition) in solidstate and the best in tube amps is Conrad Johnson, IMHO.

 

[James W. Johnson]

Yogi < I appreciate your input as well...all of you guys are ampheads!


Well here is the deal...I have an HCA-1500A and like it quite abit but need 5 channels.

I put the HCA-1500A up for sale and was going to buy this amp ....
http://www.ada-usa.com/PTM-6150_Main_Page.html

I am almost full commited to it but I could back out if I really wanted to.
Reading the reviews listed it looks to be class A to 50 wpc, has a 1500va transformer and 250,000uf of capacitance.
It was listed on Audiogon for $500 but the guy decided to raise the price to $550 ...anyhow still it seems like a decent deal.
Have any of you guys heard this amp?

Today a guy offered me a Parasound HCA-2003A for the same price of $550 ...this would enable me to keep the 1500A for surround duty.

I am sort of at a dillema as I really would like to buy both amps so I can hear them both...help me out here!

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Out of all the amps I have listened to, I have a top three:

Proceed, Nakamichi PA-5AII (stasis class a la Threshold & Nelson Pass), and Bryston. Actually, now that I think about it, I've never actually owned a "bad" amp. Just that every individual has their own particular set of criteria they want to satisfy.

Parasound makes good amps too. If you already have the HCA-1500A, I personally think that it makes more sense to just add the HCA-2003A. Unless you have the "bug", and you want to completely redo your system.

I don't know about the ADA. I looked at the Home Theater Mag review, but they didn't include any test measurements. (HT Mag usually does.) Call me an "objectivist," but I won't buy gear without it being tested somewhere first. It also has a fan, and that's also a negative IMO. It also appears to use FET output devices, and I've found that I personally prefer bipolar. MOSFETs are usually said to be smoother and warmer but less accurate than bipolar devices.

 

[James W. Johnson]

The review in 'Home Theater' measured the ADA and it was not that impressive in my book.. it looks like if you have difficult to drive speakers then the ADA might be pretty nice...250,000uf of capacitance for 6 channels is quite abit!
Measurements:

Clipping (I% THD+noise at 1 kHz): 139 Wpc into 8 ohms three channels driven;

247 Wpc into 4 ohms, two channels driven; and 384W into 2 ohms, one channel driven



Can I count on the Parasound HCA-2003A to put out its rated 220wpc at 8ohms? If so then I guess that is the best choice for me because my speakers are easy to drive , I just want as much power as possible.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I suppose at ~$500, you could always try it, and if you don't like it...

I think Parasounds are pretty conservatively rated. You'd be safe with them. Matching asthetics too!

 

[Ricky T]

I don't know anything about the ADA.

$550 is a great price for the 2003A, which has a 1.5kVA power transformer (for 3 channels) and does 220 wpc (easy). And like Kevin said, matching cosmetics.

 

[James W. Johnson]

I went ahead and bought the 2003A, now I am going to feel guilty sending my 1500A to surround duty, especially since its going to power some very easy to drive speakers that I am currently building.