Positive sign for 4K iMac in 2014? (Dell 28" 4K monitor $699) (1 Viewer)

[Krista Kimba]

Yeah..if anyone can recognize what might be going on here..would appreciate it.

 

[Sam Posten]

Very likely something changed in the recent patch that 'fixed' 4k resolutions on OSX that Dell had previously hacked around to make it work temporarily and it just happened to happen at the same time as your replaced the cables...

 

[Sam Posten]

http://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/16/apple-revamps-4k-support-page/http://www.anandtech.com/show/8023/apple-releases-osx-10-9-3-improved-4k-display

 

[Sam Posten]

Oh wait, did you say Mini? Not even sure the 2012 mini has the power to drive multiple 4k monitors...

 

[Sam Posten]

Nope:https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5683286?tstart=0https://discussions.apple.com/message/24887992#24887992You can fake it tho:http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3633447

 

[Krista Kimba]

Very likely something changed in the recent patch that 'fixed' 4k resolutions on OSX that Dell had previously hacked around to make it work temporarily and it just happened to happen at the same time as your replaced the cables...

That's what we thought...but we already had 10.9.3 installed before we swapped out the monitor cable. So what data/settings could have been damaged? or lost?

 

[Sam Posten]

I think you can't make your hardware support 4k. Set it to 1080p and have the panel uprez to 4k.

 

[Krista Kimba]

It is set at 1080p. The resolution is fine....but the logic doesn't make any sense - Why was it working BEFORE we removed the cable? The hardware is the same and the OS is the same.

 

[Krista Kimba]

We also had the higher resolutions also working fine on our Mac Minis.....BUT the text and some of the images are so small on the screen...we preferred working in the 1080p...which also was fine...Remember...these strange gray coloring and blocks appeared ONLY AFTER we swapped out the cable...and they stayed and the monitors never when back to their orignal working condition.... when we put the original cable back in.

So..4K worked...until...we removed cable and put it back. Not working. Can't get it back. We even tried reinstalling the OS..and setting monitors back to factory default.

MAC MINI - Late 2012 w Fusion Drive
Processor 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7
Memory 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3
Graphics Intel HD Graphics 4000 768 MB

SIDE NOTE ABOUT DELL!

We were on tech support - sounded like India...however, they had no idea about how their monitors worked with Macs. The support guy never even heard of Thunderbolt! So...my impression is that Dell does not support mac connections..and were only willing to support Window's users. He had a whole script for Windows support..but nothing about Mac. I asked if I could speak to an engineer department or someone who really knows how these monitors worked. They decided to replace the monitors but only after they wanted to argue that it was a Mac issue. We had done all the troubshooting to narrow it down to a Dell issue.

 

[Krista Kimba]

Since this solution :

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3633447

....was written 3 months ago....do you think it might work on 10.9.3?? Since it includes some fixing for 4K monitors???

Anyone tried it on 10.9.3?

 

[Sam Posten]

And this is why you should be very afraid of buying leading edge technology from Dell. You get what you pay for unfortunately.As to your latest Q: As designed your hardware cannot natively support multiple 4k outputs and that will not change. Apple doesn't typically add in those capabilities even when hacks like that article find ways to fake it. Apple designs things to work to a certain performance and while you can fake and hack things to extend their capabilities Apple won't bend over backwards to help you out with it. Really they have no motive to do so when they already sell things that are better designed to do what you want.As to why it used to work? Who can say, but I suspect you never really had the machine set to 4k output and it working. You probably had it set to 1080p and thought you had it set to native resolution but didn't.

 

[Krista Kimba]

So when the two new replacement monitors arrive today..what do you recommend we do??? We were thinking of trying it on MacPro versus the Mac Mini first just to check the monitor works. Then if we replicate the same problem on the Mac Mini again...we just need to tell Dell that they should need to basically say (across the board) that their 4K monitors are not recommended for Mac users. Considering Macs have the film and graphic industry...I'm surprised they haven't thought of themselves as competitors as an affordable competitor. Although I can see why Apple is trying now to be closed..when they used to be the more open platform. Shame...I also heard a rumor that they were going to change the headphone jack from analog to digital...rendering a decades long norm and all your favorite listening gear into oblivion.

 

[Sam Posten]

There are plenty of Macs that support multiple 4k monitors, the 2012 Mac Mini is not one of them.http://support.apple.com/kb/ht6008Specifically Thunderbolt 2 equipped Macs like the 2013 Retina Macbook Pros and Mac Pro 2014 work GREAT with 4k when the latest OS revs are installed, outside of that and you are on your own, tho the 2013 Mac Pro has support too but it needs a few tweaks.http://appleinsider.com/articles/14/05/16/apple-explains-enhanced-4k-monitor-support-built-into-os-x-1093Your 2012 Mac Mini contains a standard Thunderbolt port, here is the FAQ for that:http://support.apple.com/kb/ht5219And Adapter:http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5299If I'm reading right you are converting from Thunderbolt to Displayport or HDMI, which don't have the bandwidth that Thunderbolt itself is capable of let alone Thunderbolt 2.Keep in mind that Apple's own Thunderbolt displays are not 4k, they are 2440x1600:https://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html

 

[Krista Kimba]

It turns out the Dell replacement monitors work with the old MacPro tower ONLY and is working acceptably.... (and yes it works with the new 2014 MacPro black..but refresh rate is sluggish) and unusable in any working environment.

We have decided to most likely return all the Dell monitors.
We have 4 Mac Mini late 2012 that we are not upgrading anytime soon. They have fusion drives and are maxed out on RAM.

 

[Sam Posten]

Again, looking at #18:18. How many Apple Thunderbolt Displays can I use with my Mac in OS X?Thunderbolt-capable Macs that can support up to two connected Apple Thunderbolt Displays.MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Late 2012) and later4MacBook Pro (Retina, Mid 2012) and later4MacBook Pro (13-inch, Mid 2012)MacBook Pro (15-inch and 17-inch, Early 2011) and laterMacBook Air (Mid 2012) and lateriMac (Late 2012)2iMac (Mid 2011)2Mac Mini (Late 2012)4Mac Mini (Mid 2011), 2.5 GHz3So your Thunderbolt will support 2 (2500x1600) Thunderbolt Displays but you have to chain them using real Thunderbolt cables, you can only output to 1 MiniDisplayPort at the end of your chain. I'm pretty sure your Dells are not using Thunderbolt cabling, you can correct me if that is wrong.If you are in fact using Mini Display Port adapters, you will want this FAQ:http://support.apple.com/kb/HT3382

 

[Sam Posten]

That's great. For future reference here's what I suggest:If you are looking for machines to support 4k you are going to need a beefy machine. You can buy a cheap PC and drive 4k but you aren't going to be happy with anything more than 2d performance, you need a pretty good GPU to get great 3D performance from them.On the Mac side that means a Retina MBP or a Mac Pro 2014. You can sneak by with a 2013 Mac Pro but I wouldnt recommend it.For displays you are out on a tech ledge. You can go cheap with Dell or you can pay $$$ and get a Sharp, Sony, HP, Eizo or other big money display.The only one Apple will sell you is the 32" sharp.http://store.apple.com/us/product/HD971LL/A/sharp-32-pn-k321-4k-ultra-hd-led-monitor?fnode=53

 

[Krista Kimba]

We are using DisplayPort to Mini DisplayPort cable on the Dell to Mac Mini.

 

[Sam Posten]

How are you chaining them to view the second?

 

[Krista Kimba]

No second monitor. 2 workstations.

One Mac Mini. One Monitor
Second Mac Mini..One Monitor...

 

[Krista Kimba]

So what we determined...since Dell sent us two replacement monitors...and we tested them on all the machines....is that although we HAD the 4k monitor working fine before on a Mac Mini Late 2012 10.9.3 update and worked AFTER 10.9.3 update..and then removed a cable to swap out another one...that some data/communication loss occured that was there and setup before the 10.9.3 update that kept that monitor functioning fine after the last update. That a "re-setup" of the monitor with new cable hardwared caused the problem. I'm sure Dell wants to say this is a mac problem...I beg to differ. The monitor is inadequate...even for our new black tower MacPro. We also have Samsung 30" TV's that look far better and crisper!!!

We also determined that the monitor DOES work fine without the weird blocks and gray boxes...on an Old MacPro tower...and somewhat fine on the 2014 Black MacPro...however the 30Hz rate is unusable in any work environment...so we determined that we cannot use these monitors on macs in a professional environment...I couldn't use it myself in a personal environment. It's that annoying. So from a consumer business point of view..these monitors need to be redesigned.

No need to answer..but more for thought ---- So why are we really bothering with this crazy 4K stuff? Do we really need it or are "benefitting" really in screens that are smaller than 30"? Will it make our workspacees that much better? I say no. I'm completely thrilled to have my 30" Samsung LCD TV back as my monitor.